D&D 3E: the Death of Imagination?
- Thread starter Tom Cashel
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WSmith
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Re: Re: Re: Re: D&D 3E: the Death of Imagination?
Not quite a fair comaparison. The only books that were "core" in First Edition were the PHB, DMG, and MM. The others you mentioned, UA, WSG, DSG, are all considered "optional".
Tom, I feel some of your pain. For me as a player, 3e is a great game to play and cleaned up a lot of things that were cryptic in previous editons of AD&D. However, as a DM, it is pure hell for me. I can't handle the page long stat blocks, the cross-checking (no referencing hockey) of modifiers to modifiers to modifiers vs DCs and modifiers modifying modidfers. So, yes, at the risk of getting lambasted, I think there are aspects of the d20 system, not as whole though, that tend to stiffle creativity.
jasper said:
Not quite a fair comaparison. The only books that were "core" in First Edition were the PHB, DMG, and MM. The others you mentioned, UA, WSG, DSG, are all considered "optional".
Tom, I feel some of your pain. For me as a player, 3e is a great game to play and cleaned up a lot of things that were cryptic in previous editons of AD&D. However, as a DM, it is pure hell for me. I can't handle the page long stat blocks, the cross-checking (no referencing hockey) of modifiers to modifiers to modifiers vs DCs and modifiers modifying modidfers. So, yes, at the risk of getting lambasted, I think there are aspects of the d20 system, not as whole though, that tend to stiffle creativity.
John Smallberries
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: D&D 3E: the Death of Imagination?
At the risk of sounding obtuse, how does 'increased bookkeeping' equal 'stifled creativity'?
WSmith said:
At the risk of sounding obtuse, how does 'increased bookkeeping' equal 'stifled creativity'?
Timothy
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I DM and don't know the rules, and if I encounter a rule I don't like it goes right out of the window, my players know this and respect this. I live by improvising, and have lots of fun doing just that. DnD is about fun, and the ones who play it are in control, if you don't like the quantity of rules, just don't look at them all, even if the rules cover everything, you don't know all the rules and shouldn't have to!
Henry
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That's one argument that can go one for ever with no resolution. All I can say is I've had no problem with it; in fact, the rules have at times GIVEN me ideas for sessions, not taken them away; as in the case for drowning rules, grappling rules, etc.
Case in point: in a recent d20 modern game, the evil mastermind had his cronies firing at one of the heroes who had been cut off from the rest of the group. Two of the cronies decided this was getting nowhere, so they rushed him, and using aid another managed to grapple him, just as he finished off one of them. The next 2 rounds, the mook who started the grapple pinned the hero, and as they struggled for freedom, the hero watched helplessly as the evil mastermind walked past him to summon a demon to sacrifice him on an altar. The player was figuratively peeing his pants as he kept failing roll after roll, and was helpless to stop the horror before him.
Although the other heroes managed to take out their own opposition and burst into the scene in time to help, it made for a fantastic moment in the session.
Case in point: in a recent d20 modern game, the evil mastermind had his cronies firing at one of the heroes who had been cut off from the rest of the group. Two of the cronies decided this was getting nowhere, so they rushed him, and using aid another managed to grapple him, just as he finished off one of them. The next 2 rounds, the mook who started the grapple pinned the hero, and as they struggled for freedom, the hero watched helplessly as the evil mastermind walked past him to summon a demon to sacrifice him on an altar. The player was figuratively peeing his pants as he kept failing roll after roll, and was helpless to stop the horror before him.
Although the other heroes managed to take out their own opposition and burst into the scene in time to help, it made for a fantastic moment in the session.
Ridley's Cohort
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I am sure the fault must be 3e.
Back in our good old 1e/2e days we all ran multiclassed elves. And the campaigns fell apart around 9th level, largely due to the dizzying array of completely arbitrary houserulings that kept the PCs under control. Heaven have mercy on you if you try to create a single scroll! (It has a 5% of being cursed, even though the NPCs don't seem to have that problem when they make scrolls.) That's creativity!
Speaking seriously, 3e does require a different style of DMing. The game itself has much more fodder for both ruleslawyering AND creativity.
I am not surprised that you have gone through an annoying transition period into the 3e rules. I think if you and your players put all your heads together, you can have the kind of game that will keep you and your players happy.
Back in our good old 1e/2e days we all ran multiclassed elves. And the campaigns fell apart around 9th level, largely due to the dizzying array of completely arbitrary houserulings that kept the PCs under control. Heaven have mercy on you if you try to create a single scroll! (It has a 5% of being cursed, even though the NPCs don't seem to have that problem when they make scrolls.) That's creativity!
Speaking seriously, 3e does require a different style of DMing. The game itself has much more fodder for both ruleslawyering AND creativity.
I am not surprised that you have gone through an annoying transition period into the 3e rules. I think if you and your players put all your heads together, you can have the kind of game that will keep you and your players happy.
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