Zardnaar
Legend
Yeah what do you do? US isn't the worst in the world.
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D&D and the rising pandemic
- Thread starter GreyLord
- Start date
Yeah what do you do? US isn't the worst in the world.
I've been reading a bit, watching vaccine rollout, and it seems that some reasons for it beign slow (and, by the way, by no means is it only slow in the US - other "First world" countries are also botching it) is coming into focus.
You can focus on getting needles into arms, and be efficient, or you can focus on only putting needles in the correct arms, and slow yourself down. We have this phase structure, and the hoops you have to go through to make really sure that only those who are supposed to get the shot in the current phase is slowing us down tremendously, and causing significant waste of time and vaccine.
I understand that there's a great desire for equity and propriety in distribution. And maybe if smart people had been able to work real planning for, say, the six months leading up to the vaccines being ready, we might have that. But the infrastructure to quickly and smoothly enforce equity and propriety were not put in place, so now we stumble. We might get better outcomes by rolling up vaccine clinics and having people stroll thorugh neighborhoods with bullhorns telling folks, "Okay, come over to the parking lot with your ID and your sleeves rolled up, people, and let's get it done!!"
You can focus on getting needles into arms, and be efficient, or you can focus on only putting needles in the correct arms, and slow yourself down. We have this phase structure, and the hoops you have to go through to make really sure that only those who are supposed to get the shot in the current phase is slowing us down tremendously, and causing significant waste of time and vaccine.
I understand that there's a great desire for equity and propriety in distribution. And maybe if smart people had been able to work real planning for, say, the six months leading up to the vaccines being ready, we might have that. But the infrastructure to quickly and smoothly enforce equity and propriety were not put in place, so now we stumble. We might get better outcomes by rolling up vaccine clinics and having people stroll thorugh neighborhoods with bullhorns telling folks, "Okay, come over to the parking lot with your ID and your sleeves rolled up, people, and let's get it done!!"
No kidding, At the rate we're going in the Netherlands, I'll get mine somewhere between 3 and 6 years from now.
Istbor
Dances with Gnolls
Makes me almost feel bad to say that I got my first shot of Pfizer last week. I was very lucky in that respect.
No real ill effects like fatigue. Arm hurt a bit after but that is pretty normal. Both my parents have gotten their first shots (both over 65, and one with other health concerns in the mix).
That, and I am an uncle now, so a pretty eventful week.
Makes one feel guilty for those having a rougher time of it. Or those that opposite of me had a terrible week last week. I'll just hope that some good times come to others that really need it right now.
Not sure how some people can't even muster hope for others, though.
No real ill effects like fatigue. Arm hurt a bit after but that is pretty normal. Both my parents have gotten their first shots (both over 65, and one with other health concerns in the mix).
That, and I am an uncle now, so a pretty eventful week.
Makes one feel guilty for those having a rougher time of it. Or those that opposite of me had a terrible week last week. I'll just hope that some good times come to others that really need it right now.
Not sure how some people can't even muster hope for others, though.
Ryujin
Hero
Canada is definitely one of those countries. We got the initial response to the virus essentially right, if somewhat delayed, in most of the country. (Quebec is always its own thing.) The vaccine rollout, however, has been completely botched. it's just plain not being acquired, let alone disseminated, despite several early standing agreements.
Steady work for carnival barkers!
TBH, no reason not to take a hybrid approach. Some distribution via targeted cueing; some via walk-in. Especially with some people out there aggressively chasing vaccinations by scouring media and waiting to see if “leftovers” are available at this or that location.
Zardnaar
Legend
Bureaucratic inertia in action.
Americans transitioning to Antarctica. They've already done isolation and they don't have to do it again coming back from Antarctica.
They're allowed to have a couple of days off and look around Christchurch but not allowed to stay.
i.stuff.co.nz
One would think common sense would apply.
Americans transitioning to Antarctica. They've already done isolation and they don't have to do it again coming back from Antarctica.
They're allowed to have a couple of days off and look around Christchurch but not allowed to stay.
Hundreds of 'cashed-up', Covid-free Americans cannot holiday in New Zealand after Antarctic posting
They have money in their pockets and are Covid-free. But hundreds of Americans cannot holiday in New Zealand on their way home from Antarctica.
i.stuff.co.nz
One would think common sense would apply.
MoonSong
Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
I think the issue is that health organizations are treating this vaccine like the influenza vaccine -or a typical vaccine- when they should be treating it like the smallpox vaccine in the 70's. Everybody getting one, with brigades going door to door and stations being set in plazas and public transport. Since there aren't enough doses yet, they are following a typical triage pattern, but this virus doesn't follow typical patterns. It is like with temperature checks. These are very good at controlling influenza, but very bad at controlling this one.
Edit: I know it from experience. Temperature controls did wonders with H1N1 -I live in the epicenter of that epidemic, we were quarantined for two months, but things got better quickly-. But they did diddly squat to control the international spread of this thing.
Zardnaar
Legend
Temperature checks and people in bio hazard suits going around sanitizing stuff is mostly visual optics for government's to say "see we are doing something".
Neither matters a lick of beans.
Um, yes, the virus follows typical patterns for a virus, as much as there is a "typical pattern". The behavior of the thing in the population is pretty well-understood at this point. I think you might misunderstand the purpose of using the triage model.
The vaccine distribution is not intended to target those most likely to catch the virus. It is not intended to somehow blunt the spread with targeted vaccination. With wide community spread, that's not possible. In this situation, you only slow the virus by generally vaccinating the population - picking one demographic or the other won't change the overall number of infections now.
The triage model is to protect those most likely to die if they get sick, then those whose labor is most necessary for communities to continue functioning. Those of us who are more likely to survive a bout of the thing, and who won't stop basic infrastructure if we get sick, can wait.
Now, as to what "health organizations" are doing. There are no particularly broad "health organizations" that have capability to manage such things in the US. Period. This required a unified approach by the Federal government, with which State level resources could interface. Without that Federal-level plan, the thing ends up a wasteful circus.
Temperature checks work with influenza because a person is apt to be contagious for at most a day before they show flu symptoms. Temperature checks are security theater for covid-19, because you can be contagious for several days before you develop a fever, if you ever develop a fever at all. Asymptomatic spread makes temperature checks for covid-19 nigh worthless.
MoonSong
Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
Yes, of course. What I mean is that the deceases caused by this virus skirt a bit younger than with influenza. With influenza the curve is basically exponential, with this thing the curve is normal, getting as much people in their fifties and forties as people in their seventies and sixties. Yet -at least in my country- they are distributing the vaccine as if it was the influenza, disproportionally targeting people over 65. They aren't even accounting for people with other diseases that have proven to be very lethal when catching Covid -like diabetes-. Like I said they are still stuck in the influenza mindset, treating this as if it was influenza, it is not, and that is why this triage isn't working.
Thomas Shey
Hero
I've found them fairly reliable on other topics.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Bwahahahah then usans such as myself are doomed. We have people in congress who think jewish space lasers are starting fires in california.
Zardnaar
Legend
Personally I was hoping for one if the microchip vaccines. 5G mind control one would be great.
Preferably purple or blue.
Hell they can inject me with the whole damn iPhone.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Ah but you know its not the congress woman's fault because "they" let her believe this nonsense. Our country is truly doomed.
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MoonSong
Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
Local response: "They gave water to kids with cancer instead of chemo to save a buck. Do you think this miser penny pinching Government is going to spend billions of dollars on mind control chips?"
Why The Pandemic Is 10 Times Worse Than You Think
Not everyone gets tested. A new model estimates how many infections are missed because of this and how many people are actively shedding the virus. The results lend urgency to the vaccine race.
www.npr.org
Politics. Let's wander away from that please and thanks.
Currently pushing Mom in her wheelchair through a vaccination line. Moving quickly!
