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D&D and the rising pandemic


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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Ima cynic. Never disappointed. If something goes right you get a pleasant surprise.

Sure. But cynicism (at least, by the modern meaning of that term) rather restricts the ability to fully engage to make things better - cynicism tends towards self-fulfilling prophecy.

... by eating undercooked venison?

"I got rid of the vaccine, but now I have trichinosis. Totally worth it!"
--someone, somewhere.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Sure. But cynicism (at least, by the modern meaning of that term) rather restricts the ability to fully engage to make things better - cynicism tends towards self-fulfilling prophecy.



"I got rid of the vaccine, but now I have trichinosis. Totally worth it!"
--someone, somewhere.

I leanmore towards not making things worse.

Seems even that's a tall order these days.
 

Hussar

Legend
Ok, for those of us who are a bit slower than the rest of the class, why would reservoirs of Covid 19 in deer matter? It's not like we have much contact with deer, by and large - they aren't going to breathe on us and, while I suppose urine or feces are around, I don't think Covid spreads that way. If you hunt deer, again, it's not breathing on you, by and large, and, you're going to cook it pretty carefully - certainly enough to kill anything nasty in there.

So, I'm not following the chain here.

I could see if something like cows could be infected that it would be a huge problem. But deer? Is this actually going to matter?
 


Zardnaar

Legend
If that's enough for you, well, that's you. That isn't enough for me. I don't think we have the luxury of cynicism.

More into what works or what you can achieve.

Ideals are a luxury really. No point having ideals without power.

And most of the current problems boil down to money and power.

Ideals also backfire leading to disillusionment.
 

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
Ok, for those of us who are a bit slower than the rest of the class, why would reservoirs of Covid 19 in deer matter? It's not like we have much contact with deer, by and large - they aren't going to breathe on us and, while I suppose urine or feces are around, I don't think Covid spreads that way. If you hunt deer, again, it's not breathing on you, by and large, and, you're going to cook it pretty carefully - certainly enough to kill anything nasty in there.

So, I'm not following the chain here.

I could see if something like cows could be infected that it would be a huge problem. But deer? Is this actually going to matter?
Deer keep getting into urban areas and being hit by cars "near the edge of town", not just out in the countryside / deep in a forest. The chance of exposure to COVID after hitting a deer is currently even smaller than the "struck by lightning" probability range but still a possible event.

Now for the headache questions:
How did the deer get COVID?
Are there other animals it has jumped to?
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Deer keep getting into urban areas and being hit by cars "near the edge of town", not just out in the countryside / deep in a forest. The chance of exposure to COVID after hitting a deer is currently even smaller than the "struck by lightning" probability range but still a possible event.

Now for the headache questions:
How did the deer get COVID?
Are there other animals it has jumped to?

Doesn't really matter with the amount of human spread. Moot point.
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
Ok, for those of us who are a bit slower than the rest of the class, why would reservoirs of Covid 19 in deer matter? It's not like we have much contact with deer, by and large - they aren't going to breathe on us and, while I suppose urine or feces are around, I don't think Covid spreads that way. If you hunt deer, again, it's not breathing on you, by and large, and, you're going to cook it pretty carefully - certainly enough to kill anything nasty in there.

So, I'm not following the chain here.

I could see if something like cows could be infected that it would be a huge problem. But deer? Is this actually going to matter?
If your assumption is correct and we don't have much contact with deer, how are they getting it/did they get it? Clearly, there was some transmission to the deer population before they started spreading it among themselves and that suggests they either got it from contact with humans or some other animal that also got it from humans. And that raises the question can they spread it back via the same route?

It's true, this isn't the same as diseases spread back and forth between humans and domesticated animals - there the contact is much more consistent and frequent. But deer often do come pretty close to environments with people such as in rural communities where members, of course, often travel to more urban environments...

In any event, having multiple reservoirs of COVID out there in different animal species isn't exactly a thrilling development.
 

Mirtek

Hero
Now for the headache questions:
How did the deer get COVID?
Are there other animals it has jumped to?
Didn't some lions or tigers get infected in a zoo? So if they can get it, household cats should be able to get it too, shouldn't they?

So maybe from cat to deer?

Also if cats can get it, forget about deer. We'll have our unlimited reservoir right there.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Didn't some lions or tigers get infected in a zoo? So if they can get it, household cats should be able to get it too, shouldn't they?

So maybe from cat to deer?

Also if cats can get it, forget about deer. We'll have our unlimited reservoir right there.

Mirtek how reliable is DW news? I've been watching that on YouTube about your country and Covid.
 

Mirtek

Hero
Mirtek how reliable is DW news? I've been watching that on YouTube about your country and Covid.
I don't really watch DW, but I would rate it as very reliable. It's the channel our public broadcasting made to inform viewers from foreign countries and the public broadcasting in Germany is generally seen as the most reliable news you can get.

We do have private stations, but none of their news comes even close to the viewer rates of the news on public broadcasting.

They're the reason why prime time TV in Germany starts at 20:15, because 20:00 - 20:15 is time of the Tagesschau and no channel dares to try to compete with that.

A short summary of Germany at the moment: It's a complete s##tshow. Infections rates are the highest we ever had and vaccinated and anti-vaccination crowds are at each other throats worse than ever before.

We're pretty close to getting a 2G rule (only vaccinated or revovered) for just about everything except work and public transport (to get to work) and even there 3G (vaccinated, recovered or negatively tested within the last 24h) seems to not be far off.

Currently christmas markets are still officially allowed, but I fully expect them to be officially cancelled before ever having the chance to open. Many local organizers are already cancelling on their own, trying to get of of existing contracts and avoid making any new contracts before they'll be forced to cancell anything anyway.

My state, RLP, actually entered the lastest round of relaxing restrictions last Monday. Currently there are no requirements anymore for any outside gatherings and events. No masks, no distance, no contract tracing, no testing, nothing at all. Now it was set in motion weeks ago that those new relaxed regulation would take effect on November 8th and back then the situation didn't look nearly as dire as it does now.

However I was still surprised that they did actually allow the regulation to take effect as planned instead of revoking it at the last minute.
 
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Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
@Hussar

There’s actually more deer/human interaction than many people realize.

Besides their incursions into urbanized areas- often lured by feeders- deer are one of the most commonly hunted animals in the USA, both for trophies, as edible game, and in some areas, as pests. (See urban feeders, above.)

If deer become a significant long term reservoir for COVID, even if it doesn’t quickly mutate in them, they’ll still be in close proximity with humans who- demographically speaking- will more probably be unvaccinated.

But that’s not even the real issue. As you note, for the most part, we dont get that close to living deer, so the odds of direct deer=>human transmission would be low.

The thing is, all of the coronaviruses known to affect humans have had their “origins” traced back to reservoirs in rats or bats (hence the reason for the lab in Wuhan). But most of those aren’t believed to be direct zoonotic transmissions from rats/bats to humans, but rather via other (often unidentified) animals acting as vectors.

So if deer become a significant COVID reservoir, the risk of other animals that may interact with them carrying it to US increases greatly. Which means even if we managed to knock it down to virtually untraceable amounts in humans, there would always be a significant risk of a new outbreaks.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I don't really watch DW, but I would rate it as very reliable. It's the channel our public broadcasting made to inform viewers from foreign countries and the public broadcasting in Germany is generally seen as the most reliable news you can get.

We do have private stations, but none of their news comes even close to the viewer rates of the news on public broadcasting.

They're the reason why prime time TV in Germany starts at 20:15, because 20:00 - 20:15 is time of the Tagesschau and no channel dares to try to compete with that.

A short summary of Germany at the moment: It's a complete s##tshow. Infections rates are the highest we ever had and vaccinated and anti-vaccination crowds are at each other throats worse than ever before.

We're pretty close to getting a 2G rule (only vaccinated or revovered) for just about everything except work and public transport (to get to work) and even there 3G (vaccinated, recovered or negatively tested within the last 24h) seems to not be far off.

Currently christmas markets are still officially allowed, but I fully expect them to be officially cancelled before ever having the chance to open. Many local organizers are already cancelling on their own, trying to get of of existing contracts and avoid making any new contracts before they'll be forced to cancell anything anyway.

My state, RLP, actually entered the lastest round of relaxing restrictions last Monday. Currently there are no requirements anymore for any outside gatherings and events. No masks, no distance, no contract tracing, no testing, nothing at all. Now it was set in motion weeks ago that those new relaxed regulation would take effect on November 8th and back then the situation didn't look nearly as dire as it does now.

However I was still surprised that they did actually allow the regulation to take effect as planned instead of revoking it at the last minute.

Yeah a few people here don't seem to believe me when I say Europe's having issues.

Housing crisis plus inflation but it's happening world wide although the housing crisis is the worst here.

Also been watching DW documentaries. I know what's happening Covid related in Romania but idk who the captain of the all blacks is (NZ rugby team).

Things are t as bad here in a lot of ways but ideas from certain areas of the world eg between Canada and Mexico arrive here on social media.

Couple of white trash stoner types I know from high school have gone down the anti vax rabit hole. 30 odd years of smoking pot and they weren't that bright back in 94.
 



Ryujin

Legend
Urban exposure to deer, while not really usual, does in fact happen. Here are a couple of incidents in the Toronto area. I couldn't find the one in which a full grown deer was Tazered by police within view of the university at which I work.



 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Didn't some lions or tigers get infected in a zoo? So if they can get it, household cats should be able to get it too, shouldn't they?

So maybe from cat to deer?

Also if cats can get it, forget about deer. We'll have our unlimited reservoir right there.

Note - My wife is a veterinarian, who has been keeping up with such matters.

You speak as if there's "Completely immune" and "catch and pass it easily", and that's not an accurate model at all.

There have been cases where felines of various sorts (and dogs) have become infected with SARS-COV-2. But they are exceedingly rare. And, as far as I am aware, there are no known cases of housecats getting it where they were not living in the home of someone who had active covid-19. Transmission from housepet to human is also rare.

Veterinary medicine has been paying close attention to this - housepets do not comprise a significant pool of virus.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
So, about deer...

How do deer get it? Well, many of the deer in the articles above were farm-raised (most deer meat you can buy is not wild hunted, folks!) and so had frequent contact with humans. And on farms, wild deer do often come by and interact with farmed deer through fences.

Also, wild deer do rummage through human trash - a deer getting into trash loaded with used tissues, and you have possible infection.

A major point to make is that we do not know if these deer can pass it back to humans. These deer were not tested by nose-swab, so the data does not directly indicate presence in the upper respiratory tract, or what levels it is present there in the deer - the droplet-based transmission we see in human transmission may not be a thing for deer.
 

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