D&D 5E D&D and who it's aimed at

[BookTenTiger]

Right, and why would I want to do that, when I have nothing but 'adulting' in the real world?

Just as, why would I want to solve problems with understanding, compromise, compassion, non-violence, and patience, when I have to do that every single day.

Just give me some daggers, or a big sword, and let me kick in the door please.

I don't know that most currently published adventures prevent you from playing that way... They just also include options for other methods of play.

 

[Minigiant]

Right, and why would I want to do that, when I have nothing but 'adulting' in the real world?

Just as, why would I want to solve problems with understanding, compromise, compassion, non-violence, and patience, when I have to do that every single day.

Just give me some daggers, or a big sword, and let me kick in the door please.

Who said you don't get to kick in doors.

The difference is you get to choose which door to kick and people are pointing to the doors, reinforcing the doors, and threatening to kick in your doors. And the doors have fancier stuff behind them.

 

[Scribe]

They just also include options for other methods of play.

Yes, I know, and it doesnt appeal to me in the slightest, so I do not buy it.

 

[Scribe]

Who said you don't get to kick in doors.

The difference is you get to choose which door to kick and people are pointing to the doors, reinforcing the doors, and threatening to kick in your doors. And the doors have fancier stuff behind them.

I understand where you are coming from, but largely, I do look at it all as escapism, and I dont play characters looking to 'lead the world'. I play characters who are looking to escape from the mundane, tediousness of it all, and just adventure.

 

[beta-ray]

I don't know about "Disney-fication", or defanging. Certainly I see more of an emphasis on diversity of playstyle (eg. Witchlight) and creative input. Spelljammer looks a bit silly, but I think that is what attracts me to it. The older I get, the looser I get about things being serious.

I did notice an appeal to the more youthful with the Young Adventurer's Guide books, but that was not the RPGs proper.

 

[Lanefan]

I played a lot of AD&D and I honestly don’t remember it as having “fangs” that have been filed down in newer editions.

AD&D 1e or 2e?

There's a big difference - 2e was also very much defanged, mostly to appease the Satanic-Panic crowd.

 

[Minigiant]

I understand where you are coming from, but largely, I do look at it all as escapism, and I dont play characters looking to 'lead the world'. I play characters who are looking to escape from the mundane, tediousness of it all, and just adventure.

You don't have to lead the world. They really can't make you*. That's the point. You have tons of freedom**

The issue is and what @Zadnaar mentioned,is that most DMs don't have the experience nor tools to run PCs who are very free from the rail.

Whimsical, dark, grim, or bright, D&D still really only gives you the zeroes experience and aims for people who play zeroes.

*on their own
** technically

 

[Maxperson]

I played a lot of AD&D and I honestly don’t remember it as having “fangs” that have been filed down in newer editions.

1e and 2e had poison that just plain insta-killed, starting at level 1.

Energy drains started at level 3 or 4 and had no save and you generally weren't able to stop them or recover those levels when you first started encountering them. Unless the DM artificially changed random encounters with those undead to something else, you rarely hit anything higher than 6th or 7th level. Even if you did manage to get the level(s) back, you still lost every point of experience you earned towards the next level and started back at 0 earned towards it. So if you were a wizard that needed 20,000 xp to reach level 5 and got drained at 19950 xp, when you got the level back you only had 10,000 xp and were starting all over again.

Low level casters had few spell slots, far fewer than 3e gave and no cantrips like 4e and 5e gave. That meant far less healing in combat and you often died when you got knocked out, because you just kept losing hit points each round until -10. It wasn't unusual to get knocked to -7, -8 or -9 in the middle of a combat.

Hit points were rolled starting at level 1(no max roll at 1st) and con bonuses often weren't present, even for fighting classes. I had many fighters who started the game with 1-3 hit points, wizards who started with 1, etc. Super easy to hit those negative numbers above and end up dead.

 

[Zardnaar]

You don't have to lead the world. They really can't make you*. That's the point. You have tons of freedom**

The issue is and what @Zadnaar mentioned,is that most DMs don't have the experience nor tools to run PCs who are very free from the rail.

Whimsical, dark, grim, or bright, D&D still really only gives you the zeroes experience and aims for people who play zeroes.

*on their own
** technically

I can do it but it's not really worth the effort these days. Got old and can't be bothered.

Not that it actually matters games usually fall apart after 6-12 months. Covid lockdowns finished off a few.

 

[Irlo]

poison

Energy drains

spell slots

Hit points

"Fangs" are in the eye of the beholder, I guess. Is this the sort of thing that people are talking about when they say Disneyfication? I thought it was more about tone, theme, and artwork. Removal of gore, controversial material, etc.

D&D never seemed edgy to me. I mean, we fought vegepygmies on a space ship.

DMs could certainly put an edge to it. Just like now.