D&D 5E D&D and who it's aimed at

[Paul Farquhar]

I think the complaining is a combination of "I hate WotC because it is an Evil Corporation" and "I haven't read it, because I didn't like the art".

Which is interesting, because there is nothing particularly offensive about Conan apart from the art.

Of course it goes the other way too. A lot of the complaints about Rime of the Frostmaiden stem from it's lack of a grand heroic good vs evil arc. I.e, when presented with a Sword and Sorcery story, a lot of players simply don't know what to do with it.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

How does that describe Hyboria at all? Yes, there is a tyrannical government, that is overthrown and King Conan takes over, ending tyranical rule. I don't recall any environmental disaster. There is zero sense of a society in decline - most of the societies are growing and thriving. The societies in decline are all decadent or evil. Rampant fear or distress? Where?

Just because a setting isn't a utopia doesn't make it dystopian. A dystopian setting would be a horrifying place to live. There's no sense of that in Hyboria as a whole. Sure, Stygia isn't exactly a bastion of righteousness, but, Aquilonia is pretty nice. Cimmeria isn't described as a horrific place. Harsh, sure, but, again, harsh doesn't make something dystopian.

Well, apart from Red Nails, which is specifically about a dystopia. But the general setting for Conan is tonally neutral.

It's a shame Conan is currently unfashionable, because there is some good stuff there, much more worthy of rediscovery than Dragonlance!

 

[Scribe]

"I hate WotC because it is an Evil Corporation"

Not at all, I have quite a few Wizards products, and if we tally up my MTG....they got more than their pound of flesh out of me. Hate isnt the issue here from my side.

 

[Malmuria]

That matches the look I'm talking about, where the Players are anything less than heroic?

No, I dont believe they will, and I've already gone over why. However I've been assured that perhaps I just need to wait my turn, and that I should be happy with what small things I do have still so as I noted yesterday, or the day before...

Feel free to @ me when we get one, and @ me again when we get a Planescape book that focuses on Alignment, the Planes, and petty debates between the Gods and gloat in how I was wrong, and Wizards was just taking its time to cover what I want.

But this means it is not a recent trend, right? 5e from the start has been heroic fantasy-oriented

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

That matches the look I'm talking about, where the Players are anything less than heroic?

. . . That's an adventuring party composition, not something you can build into an adventure or setting. Why would anyone build an adventure that explicitly stated that you have to be antiheroes/villain protagonists in order to play it? You can easily do this for Tomb of Annihilation. Your party doesn't have to be heroic. You're just getting paid to end the Death Curse. You can (less easily) do this for Rime of the Frostmaiden. Even if your party isn't heroic, they would probably be driven to save Icewind Dale because they happen to live in it and it's really hard to leave.

No, I dont believe they will, and I've already gone over why. However I've been assured that perhaps I just need to wait my turn, and that I should be happy with what small things I do have still so as I noted yesterday, or the day before...

But they have published adventures that can easily be used in Sword and Sorcery-style campaigns. That's what some of us are trying to get across. They have given you the tools to run the style adventure you want in 5e. Some of the adventures even work better when styled as Sword and Sorcery instead of high, epic fantasy (Rime of the Frostmaiden, Tomb of Annihilation).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Why would anyone build an adventure that explicitly stated that you have to be antiheroes/villain protagonists in order to play it?

I did exactly that with my Sky Pirates of Eberron campaign!

You can (less easily) do this for Rime of the Frostmaiden. Even if your party isn't heroic, they would probably be driven to save Icewind Dale because they happen to live in it and it's really hard to leave.

It's easier than that. The PCs don't need to be interested in saving Icewind Dale at all. They can be motivated simply by a search for treasure for themselves, and end up saving Icewind Dale by accident. Very much like Conan would.

 

[Scribe]

But this means it is not a recent trend, right? 5e from the start has been heroic fantasy-oriented

No, as Acererak notes, there are adventures which could be played under that model, but not a lot (any?) art that fits.

The recent books? Not even close, and the art is even further away, so I still believe there is a trend.

 

[Scribe]

But they have published adventures that can easily be used in Sword and Sorcery-style campaigns.

And I have heard you, and acknowledged that?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

but not a lot (any?) art that fits.

Why? because of a lack of chainmail bikinis?

 

[Scribe]

Why? because of a lack of chainmail bikinis?

LOL yes, and 95% naked dudes with huge swords.

I've been very clear here.