D&D and World of Warcraft (Not a Rant)

[Bishmon]

I haven't played many MMORPG's, or even other RPG systems, but
- critting with spells
- being able to crit undead (zombies at least)
- reducing the variance of spell effects (less dice - speculation on my part)
- "points of light" (ie "secure" areas that are far apart with danger between them)

are elements that you can find in WoW.

Those are all also found in Shadow Hearts, a PS2 RPG that came out in the middle of 2001, over three years before WoW.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

This whole thing about WoW and 4e just strikes me as much ado about nothing.

Especially since everyone who starts a thread about it seems to only have a glancing familiarity with WoW. (Jonathan was way too kind on the factual errors made by the OP.)

If people are going to be scared of the WoW Menace, they ought to break down and actually play the game more than 10 minutes three years ago.

Yes, like all MMORPGs, WoW has a lot of ideas originally taken from D&D. In WoW's case, though, the transition really ended more than a decade ago, when the first two Warcraft games came out. WoW now draws from the previous Warcraft games and expansions, novels, graphic novels and so on.

Even most WoW players don't seem to realize how many elements of WoW come from previous Warcraft games -- witness all the people moaning that WoW is almost out of villains, just because the next expansion features most of the rest of the Warcraft III bad guys.

The biggest WoW influence I can see is the way the guys at WotC seem to talk. Most of them play WoW a lot; Noonan talks about it in his blog. I think the inevitable bleed-over from WoW-talk to talking about gaming in general to talking to D&D is evident. Sure, WoWisms have their roots in many places, including D&D, but having them crop up so prominently in description, discussion, and terminology in the blogs really speaks to the MMORPG primacy in the gaming audience.

Unfortunately, I don't know this will ever change. D&D isn't the one with 10 million current players worldwide, and growing.

There's a spectrum of theme and gameplay that ranges from low and realistic to epic and over the top. Currently D&D is somewhere in the middle there, with WoW being more to the epic-and-over-the-top side compared to D&D.

I think WoW only gets into that toward (and past) level 60, which really corresponds to epic levels in 3E. I'd slash WoW levels by three to get a roughly equivalent 3E character. So, yeah, my level 70 dwarf hunter (3E: level 23 dwarf ranger) does some pretty amazing stuff.

But he also spent a lot of time crawling low level dungeons and fighting large nasty bears and such. There's plenty of room for low-level play in WoW, and in the next patch, they're giving a lot of love to the lower level game, so I think for folks who want to draw inspiration from WoW, Blizzard certainly is on-board with the lower-powered game being compelling and fun as well.

I look forward to marching my dwarf (well, riding his ram) back to the Dustwallow Marsh to do all the quests regarding Theramore and the new goblin outpost and finally bringing the raiders who killed everyone in that inn on the edge of the Barrens to justice. I don't want or need to always be fighting the ghosts of powerful archmages in the haunted tower of the greatest wizard the world has ever known: Simple fun like fishing contests or delivering Brewfest kegs or keeping the Headless Horseman from burning down Kharanos work for me as well.

 

[Cam Banks]

How did the quote tag list my name as "Cam Brooks"?

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Charwoman Gene]

How did the quote tag list my name as "Cam Brooks"?

That's messed up.

 

[The Little Raven]

Eladrin - a more magical elf tied to the Feywild, WOW has Blood Elves a more magic elf from another plane

Blood Elves are High Elves that are/were aligned with Kael'thas Sunstrider and rebuilt Quel'thalas. They're just a minor plot point away from their origin: high elves, which were just like the arcanist high elves in D&D.

Orc - looks like them and half-orcs are no longer in PHB, in WOW they are a major race

Well, with the green skin and all, they're more inspired by Warhammer orcs.

Tiefling - weird looking ancient race with other worldly ties, WOW has them they are called Drendari ??? I think

Tieflings are the descendants of humans that screwed devils.

I assume the race you're referring to are the draenei, who are nothing like Tieflings. They were an ancient magical race (called the eredar) that was offered power through corruption by Sargeras, and 1/3 of the race fled and renamed themselves the draenei. They are not reformed demons as Jonathon claims. They were never demons, because they rejected Sargeras' offer and have spent the last 25,000 years fleeing from their corrupted brethren (who still call themselves eredar).

Half-Elf - only in D&D

In Honor Hold, there's a half-elf looking for his parents, named Arator the Redeemer.

Warlord- Maybe compares to a new class coming soon called Deathknight? IDK

Nope, nothing like the Warlord. The Death Knight is a dps/tanking hybrid that relies on a cooldown-based resource management system (runes).

The DK is also unlike any class in D&D because it isn't a base class and it isn't a prestige class. You don't qualify for it and then become one. You unlock the character slot for it by doing some kind of quest on your regular character, then you are able to create a brand new death knight at level 55-70 (they haven't decided which). Blizzard calls it an "advanced end-game only class."

Defender= Tank
Leader= Healer
Striker= DPS
Controler= Controler

WoW got these from D&D.

What about mana recovery and atwill/per encounter/per day ability comparisons?

There are no at-will abilities for most casters. As a mage, if I run out of mana, and use up all my special regeneration abilities (Evocation to restore a % of it, mana gems for a small amount, potions, etc), then I'm screwed.

 

[BASHMAN]

Personally, I reckon Guild Wars might be a closer fit to 4E than WOW.

Last I checked, Guild Wars did not cost $10 per month like D&D 4e or WoW do

 

[Aldarc]

Instead of saying that D&D is pulling things in from WoW, I think we should be asking some fairly significant questions: 1) What did World of Warcraft teach the gaming world? 2) What did D&D learn from WoW? 3) What should D&D integrate from WoW? 4) What parts of WoW should D&D make sure that they keep out?

 

[Counterspin]

Last I checked, Guild Wars did not cost $10 per month like D&D 4e or WoW do

What is, willful ignorance of the thread topic Alex?

 

[The Little Raven]

Last I checked, Guild Wars did not cost $10 per month like D&D 4e or WoW do

Last I checked, D&D 4e doesn't cost $10 a month (repeating this is just intentionally spreading misinformation) and doesn't require an internet connection.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Last I checked, Guild Wars did not cost $10 per month like D&D 4e or WoW do

Last time I've checked, you only need to buy the 4E core books, not $10 per months. But I think hong talked about the design, not the surrounding economics.

However, since I'm not that familiar with Guild Wars (only tested the first Guild Wars product, never the expansions), you anybody give a basic run-down, besides the primary/secondary class-system.

Or even better, could you (hong) explain what you mean by 4E and GW similarities? I'm curious!

Cheers, LT.