D&D General D&D as a Curated, DIY Game or "By the Book": Examining DM and Player Agency, and the DM as Game Designer

[Oofta]

Have you never told a DM "Hey Insert Name, if you change this then that kinda breaks. You know that right?"

Let's take a real world example because hypotheticals don't always work. How DMs run shield master and the ability to shove someone varies. So if I have (or plan to take) shield master I'll ask the DM how they run it. So, yes, if they say that it can only be used after the attack is fully complete I'll explain why I think that for me it's no longer worth taking but I'll accept their ruling.

I guess I just see a fine line between asking how something works and telling them they're doing it wrong. To me, " if you change this then that kinda breaks. You know that right?" feels like I'm telling the DM that they're doing it wrong.

 

[prabe]

I guess I just see a fine line between asking how something works and telling them they're doing it wrong. To me, " if you change this then that kinda breaks. You know that right?" feels like I'm telling the DM that they're doing it wrong.

It seems as though it'd be slightly different if you pointed out a specific way in which the change broke something. "Hey, if you change [rule] then [effect] seems obvious. That what you want?" Or, "What are you trying to do by changing [rule]?"

 

[embee]

Let's take a real world example because hypotheticals don't always work. How DMs run shield master and the ability to shove someone varies. So if I have (or plan to take) shield master I'll ask the DM how they run it. So, yes, if they say that it can only be used after the attack is fully complete I'll explain why I think that for me it's no longer worth taking but I'll accept their ruling.

I guess I just see a fine line between asking how something works and telling them they're doing it wrong. To me, " if you change this then that kinda breaks. You know that right?" feels like I'm telling the DM that they're doing it wrong.

You, sir, need to shut the hell up with your reasoned approach to life which, incredibly, appears to include dialogue, active listening, openmindedness, and a willingness to compromise. It's an affront to modern sensibilities and an outright abomination. It will surely lead this world to ruin!

 

[Oofta]

You, sir, need to shut the hell up with your reasoned approach to life which, incredibly, appears to include dialogue, active listening, openmindedness, and a willingness to compromise. It's an affront to modern sensibilities and an outright abomination. It will surely lead this world to ruin!

Hey now, watch that language!

 

[Oofta]

It seems as though it'd be slightly different if you pointed out a specific way in which the change broke something. "Hey, if you change [rule] then [effect] seems obvious. That what you want?" Or, "What are you trying to do by changing [rule]?"

Sure. I'm just saying that I'm careful when I broach this kind of thing. I mean, my wife also DMs and there are times when I disagree with her rulings but we (hopefully) work it out like adults. So far I haven't had to sleep on the couch because of it so I guess it's working.

Even if I disagree, I can disagree respectfully. I'll also have a discussion other than a quick clarification outside of the game. Other times I'll just accept a ruling that's different than mine because I don't expect other DMs to run things exactly like I do.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

... how do you mean? And which version of D&D did you learn on and which do you run now?

I learned on 1st edition (and Traveller). I'm running 5e now.

One of my fellow RL DMs has mentioned she used to take a dozen hours preparing each three hour session there and it was far too much of a job.

I probably spend about the same prepping for my 5e sessions. I don't work full time so I can. It's too much for someone just getting started in their career.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

. Player just didn't question DMs that much or that hard and let DMs do whatever. Possibly because like you said and what I said.

Players have an expectation that the DM deals with the rules and controls the world. Players expect to focus exclusively on what their character says and does.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I learned on 1st edition (and Traveller). I'm running 5e now.

I probably spend about the same prepping for my 5e sessions. I don't work full time so I can. It's too much for someone just getting started in their career.

Oof. That's a lot, and I can understand why you don't get to play if you do that. I tend to spend about an hour per session, plus some time at the start setting up a lot of the setting. I can also understand why if you put that much effort in others starting out can't take that on.

Would some resources on making prep lighter help both you feel you were less of a dog and you to bring out other DMs? Also what do you use those 12 hours per session for?

 

[Minigiant]

I guess I just see a fine line between asking how something works and telling them they're doing it wrong. To me, " if you change this then that kinda breaks. You know that right?" feels like I'm telling the DM that they're doing it wrong.

That's me just asking if a consequence is intended or not. I think the harshness comes from DMs messing with the real crunch editions and offshoots willynilly.

Players have an expectation that the DM deals with the rules and controls the world. Players expect to focus exclusively on what their character says and does.

Players also know a DM is human and can miss things.

Should DMs shun help from players?

 

[Oofta]

That's me just asking if a consequence is intended or not. I think the harshness comes from DMs messing with the real crunch editions and offshoots willynilly.


Players also know a DM is human and can miss things.

Should DMs shun help from players?

I may ask for clarification, and point out my understanding of the rules but. If the DM knows the rule and still rules differently they obviously don't think they're breaking anything.

Guess it's just the difference between double checking and challenging. I try to avoid the latter, if I disagree enough often enough I'll simply find a different game.