D&D General D&D Assumptions Ain't What They Used To Be

[Reynard]

The culture of a time. A lot of things we do today will also be considered agressive in the future. We are not better than the ones in the 80s and 90s in a relative analysis made 30-40 years after.

I don't think I implied otherwise.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Why? It wasn't advice to do so. it was an admonishment of the behavior. It was an acknowledgement that some players would do so, and that there should be in-game consequences for it.

Stop being logical. It gets in the way of outrage.

 

[Alzrius]

In a way, it's worse. The lich's phylactery went from being any sort of object to being a close variation of tefillin.

No, it didn't. That's the point; the entire idea that illustrators wouldn't know what a "phylactery" was, would look in a dictionary, and would then draw liches as using tefillin is farfetched to the point of being absurd.

How many illustrations of lich phylacteries have there been in the twenty-first century? Of those, how many look like tefillin? I feel confident that even if the latter is higher than zero, it's still wildly insignificant as a percentage of the former. This idea that some sort of potentially insensitive misunderstanding is being averted is insanely small, too much so to justify eliminating the use of "phylacteries" as something liches use.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

1. The people objecting are the ones who need to be "forgiven"? C'mon. That's a pretty weak admonishment.

If they mop up the invisible guy afterwards, yeah.

2. In-game consequences for toxic out of game attitudes leaking into it, is not the way to handle that.

It is always dangerous to look at statements without cultural context of that time. Things that feel* very insensitive or offensive or inappropriate today might be a very progressive statement back then.

A few things I always think of:
"an eye for an eye" sounds barbaric today. But when this rule was established, it prevented that people were killed for taking the eye of another person.
Or a guillotine was considered a humane way of punishment.

*and objectively are

 

[Argyle King]

1. The people objecting are the ones who need to be "forgiven"? C'mon. That's a pretty weak admonishment.
2. In-game consequences for toxic out of game attitudes leaking into it, is not the way to handle that.

1) I took that as a softer way to tell youths playing the game that "if NPCs choose to beat the bejesus out of your character for being a perv, they could* be justified in doing so or even doing worse." *Depends upon the legal system of the specific locale.

2) There is not enough context to what is shown to indicate that the toxicity can be attributed to the player rather than the character. Is there a connection? Yes, likely. However, there are also D&D characters who regularly murder creatures and take their stuff; outside of the Satanic Panic, I'm not aware of claims that actual real-life people playing the game D&D are going on murder sprees.

 

[Undrave]

man people in the past where strange

To quote a certain youtube creator : "The past was a mistake"

 

[Mind of tempest]

If they mop up the invisible guy afterwards, yeah.

It is always dangerous to look at statements without cultural context of that time. Things that feel* very insensitive or offensive or inappropriate today might be a very progressive statement back then.

A few things I always think of:
"an eye for an eye" sounds barbaric today. But when this rule was established, it prevented that people were killed for taking the eye of another person.
Or a guillotine was considered a humane way of punishment.

*and objectively are

guillotine and being put under so there is minimal feeling.

To quote a certain youtube creator : "The past was a mistake"

which micro celebrity is that?

 

[Alzrius]

There is not enough context to what is shown to indicate that the toxicity can be attributed to the player rather than the character.

This is something that I think is too often glossed over in these discussions. One of the major ways that people vent stress is by engaging in symbolic, performative, or otherwise harmless violations of moral values that they hold dear. It's why people yell something they know is an expletive when they're angry or upset, rather than something random like "toes!" or "corn!"

Doing so doesn't mean that they actually reject those values. They're just blowing off steam.

 

[MGibster]

Things have certainly improved from where we were. Looking at a lot of the 80s screwball comedies, these sorts of attitudes were rife in mainstream culture at the time.

Bingo. I laughed uproariously at Ace Ventura back in 1994, but I'm less inclined to laugh at mean spirited comedy situations where transgender characters are the butt of jokes because they're transgender. I'm not the same person I was thirty years ago. Things are different.

The culture of a time. A lot of things we do today will also be considered agressive in the future. We are not better than the ones in the 80s and 90s in a relative analysis made 30-40 years after.

How many young people thing it's rude to call instead of texting first? Things do change quickly. I love regaling younger people of dating when I was their age. When I asked a girl out, she had to look me right in the eye and break my heart face-to-face. Best case scenario is that I got to hear the sound of her voice over the phone. There was no emotional separation that comes via texting.

This idea that some sort of potentially insensitive misunderstanding is being averted is insanely small, too much so to justify eliminating the use of "phylacteries" as something liches use.

I am by no means one of those "Go woke, go broke" folks, but I do think sometimes people go a bit overboard on the sensitivity and inclusion.

A few things I always think of:
"an eye for an eye" sounds barbaric today. But when this rule was established, it prevented that people were killed for taking the eye of another person.

I've made that point to folks. An eye for an eye establishes the basic premise of justice in that the punishment must fit the crime.

To quote a certain youtube creator : "The past was a mistake"

My parents always told me I was a mistake.

 

[FrozenNorth]

It's not even the obvious stuff like straight up sexual assault made "commendable" in Revenge of the Nerds. The 80s and 90s are just rife with microaggressions against everyone that was not a straight white dude. I cringe often when I revisit some of my favorites.

True. I rewatched the Princess Bride (which I had fond memories of) with my son. In the swamps of despair, Westley loses his sword fighting a Rodent of Unusual Size. My son piped in “I know what happens! Buttercup stabs the RoUS while it is busy fighting Westley!”.

“No, son. She stands there wringing her hands uselessly while Westley deals with it by himself.”