WotC D&D Beyond current development

[Oofta]

Your post is a good demonstration that I don't need to be, though. You're teaching grandma to suck eggs.

Have you even been following DDB's development?

So that's a serious question that needs an answer. Especially as you previously "theorized" something the Beyond team had literally outright said. That's like "theorizing" that Teslas use electric engines and a lithium-ion battery.

They literally already said they did the bolded bit, starting in 2019. The big motivation to get it done was the pre-Tasha's UA. They said the only way to get Tasha's working was to do it, and that it would give them a customizable approach to rules whilst not breaking the functionality, exactly as you are "guessing" (lol?!!?). And when Tasha's went live, they confirmed that they now had this.

Which seems to be a hilarious lie or more likely, they just didn't want to actually add the other content.

LOL. You try doing some legal automation then.

I don't assume people "hilariously" lie. I've never said there aren't other complex domains out there. Nor have I said it's the most complex domain evah, just that if you look at how to actually implement it (I have built limited D&D rules systems implemented "funsies" in the past) it's more complex than a lot of people assume.

Maybe it's going to heck in a handbasket. Perhaps in the past they thought things were easy to fix in the past and made the all too common mistake of thinking it would be easier than it was. Maybe they're working on changes now, but it just takes time because of all the technical debt that piled up.

We simply don't know. I'm not going to accuse people of lying or being incompetent when I have no clue what's really going on internally. Feel free to be a negative Nancy all you want, I just see no evidence that we know what's currently happening since they were bought out.

 

[Umbran]

Jerks.

Mod Note:
The quality of discussion will be better if we all stay away from the name-calling. If your frustration is such that you really can't help that, and getting otherwise aggressive with people that you seem to be moving to, I suggest you take a break, before you say something regrettable.

 

[Azzy]

Personally, I think that they are in the midst of doing a from-the-ground-up overhaul of the entire thing which is why they haven't been doing anything real with the existing software and that they will likely unveil it when the stars align one edition goes live.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

We simply don't know. I'm not going to accuse people of lying or being incompetent when I have no clue what's really going on internally.

So you probably work with software suppliers and other devs.

What do you call them when they repeatedly, seemingly intentionally mislead you? Getting something wrong is one thing. Being wrong is one thing. Repeatedly telling people something that isn't true, over the course of months or years (and it's years here), that's an entirely other thing.

To me, that's lying. As for "It's not worth it", well, do you pay for Beyond? If not then maybe that's the difference. You don't feel like they've been taking some fairly significant fees and not really doing anything positive with them, where for the first couple of years, they manifestly were.

No-one is disagreeing with the OP re: Beyond having gone from actively developing their product to doing almost nothing (only chargeable stuff like dice) over the last few months, I note.

Nor have I said it's the most complex domain evah, just that if you look at how to actually implement it (I have built limited D&D rules systems implemented "funsies" in the past) it's more complex than a lot of people assume.

I mean, more complex than people assume? Absolutely agree.

But complex in any more independent sense, like as complex as, say a normal one-man indie video game? Not really. Let alone as complex as products I work with developed by small teams.

I mean, they don't even have a VTT - I don't know if you actually are familiar with Beyond, because you haven't said that I've seen - we're not talking about a VTT product. We're talking about a database for creating characters, and a semi-automated (not even fully-automated) character sheet, together with spell/monster/item lists (and the contents of the books).

Feel free to be a negative Nancy all you want, I just see no evidence that we know what's currently happening since they were bought out.

So me thinking they're probably doing a large-scale overhaul is being a "negative nancy", and you thinking the same thing makes you what lol? Also a "negative nancy"?

My issue isn't with what they're currently doing behind the scenes, that's unknowable, we both agree, and we have similar theories on what it is.

My issue is that they have got steadily worse at communicating for four years (including what appears to be actual misinformation, and certainly no apologies for it), and got dramatically worse to the point of silence under WotC's management/leadership.

 

[Oofta]

So you probably work with software suppliers and other devs.

What do you call them when they repeatedly, seemingly intentionally mislead you? Getting something wrong is one thing. Being wrong is one thing. Repeatedly telling people something that isn't true, over the course of months or years (and it's years here), that's an entirely other thing.

To me, that's lying. As for "It's not worth it", well, do you pay for Beyond? If not then maybe that's the difference. You don't feel like they've been taking some fairly significant fees and not really doing anything positive with them, where for the first couple of years, they manifestly were

I call it unrealistic estimations on the part of developers combined with, likely, poor management. Now that DndBeyond has access to WOTC's deep pockets, what came before is not particularly relevant.

No-one is disagreeing with the OP re: Beyond having gone from actively developing their product to doing almost nothing (only chargeable stuff like dice) over the last few months, I note.

Have you sat down with the development team? Reviewed their project plans? No? Then we don't know what they are doing. Nothing has changed with the interface, as far as we know they are rewriting the infrastructure as we speak, implementing changes to how things work. You don't implement new features when you need to rewrite the core, you rebuild existing features and ensure that they're still working.

They did a decent job of the interface, the part that you and I interact with. That's always been their strong suit. That will likely be one of the last things to see significant change. I know, I know, as a user you want change now. It doesn't happen that way, not if you want it done right.

I mean, more complex than people assume? Absolutely agree.

But complex in any more independent sense, like as complex as, say a normal one-man indie video game? Not really. Let alone as complex as products I work with developed by small teams.

I mean, they don't even have a VTT - I don't know if you actually are familiar with Beyond, because you haven't said that I've seen - we're not talking about a VTT product. We're talking about a database for creating characters, and a semi-automated (not even fully-automated) character sheet, together with spell/monster/item lists (and the contents of the books).

Good to know that working with developers makes you an expert in software development along with data and process modelling.

So me thinking they're probably doing a large-scale overhaul is being a "negative nancy", and you thinking the same thing makes you what lol? Also a "negative nancy"?


My issue isn't with what they're currently doing behind the scenes, that's unknowable, we both agree, and we have similar theories on what it is.

My issue is that they have got steadily worse at communicating for four years (including what appears to be actual misinformation, and certainly no apologies for it), and got dramatically worse to the point of silence under WotC's management/leadership.

Are you surprised that they've cut back on communication? If they mistakenly overpromise they're lying. If they admit they don't have the budget to fix something, they're terrible miscreants. It buys them absolutely nothing to make the internals of their project public knowledge.

Maybe they're incompetent lackwits who's management bamboozled WOTC into buying a product they can no longer update. Maybe, just maybe, they're making plans and working on things that have not seen the light of day and may not for quite some time. Perhaps they're waiting for the 2024 release decisions before they implement massive changes. We just don't know and rather than assume the worst, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Now excuse me, I have to go create character #60* because the game I'm playing in is wrapping up it's current campaign soon and I want another option depending on what everyone else is bringing to the table for the next one.

*In my defense my wife uses my account as well, so some of them are hers.

 

[Nikosandros]

They literally already said they did the bolded bit, starting in 2019. The big motivation to get it done was the pre-Tasha's UA. They said the only way to get Tasha's working was to do it, and that it would give them a customizable approach to rules whilst not breaking the functionality, exactly as you are "guessing" (lol?!!?). And when Tasha's went live, they confirmed that they now had this.

Exactly this. Three years ago they told us that they were currently rebuilding the code and that they would gain the required flexibility going forwards. It is now the end of 2022 and there isn't much to be seen. Also, it seems that all communication with the public has ceased. In addition, I think that at least one of the main developers might no longer working for DDB, since he no longer has any "titles" on the forums.

 

[Kurotowa]

While I am a mere user, I've seen enough struggles with complex code bases over the years that I never assume it's quick and easy to fix. A decade with World of Warcraft rubbed my nose in enough of them. I remember the one time, they made a minor change in the tank threat multiplier. That minor change somehow broke a Paladin ability, where a DoT (Damage over Time) that was supposed to stack to 5 got uncapped and would stack infinitely, turning them into unstoppable gods that were vaporizing raid bosses.

How? Why? That's the wonder of spaghetti code. Sometimes things just happen, and the how and why is all inside a black box made by someone who left two years ago and didn't document their code properly. Fixing it is a difficult and labor intensive process that can sometimes mean rebuilding it from scratch.

Also, any schedule estimate from three years ago was made in the Before Times. None of those survived the advent of the pandemic.

 

[Steel_Wind]

WotC paid a lot of money for DDB. When it comes to software products, this is something which Hasbro dabbled in within the past - lost several HUNDREDS of millions of dollars at it -- and got the hell out for a decade+

DDB as a portal for buying online versions of D&D products has been very successful. It is being used by Mr. Primate & Foundry VTT to power their non-SRD features, too (works well for that purpose; it's slick!)

The trend in the market to online VTT play was happening anyway -- but Covid put a very strong wind at the back of that. Whether WotC decides to offer their own service for that, or charge people to use DDB as a bridge (above what it already does), or something else -- or nothing -- is unknown. This is competitive information and I'm quite sure that WotC doesn't want to talk about it much.

In short: Before its purchase, DDB had to reach out to its customers and communicate with them effectively in order to provide their niche service. Now, under WotC's ownership -- they feel they don't have to do that. So they aren't.

It's not any more complicated than that. I wouldn't read anything into current projects or future development over their relative silence.

 

[John Lloyd1]

My issue is that they have got steadily worse at communicating for four years (including what appears to be actual misinformation, and certainly no apologies for it), and got dramatically worse to the point of silence under WotC's management/leadership.

It seems to me that while they communicated a lot at the beginning, they were over-communicating and over-promising. They have been talking about these features since almost the beginning and haven't been good at delivering (i.e the general feature system and encounters which is still in beta).

I'm not blaming anyone for this.

I suspect that as WoTC has increased their output, they have been forced to be reactive which has eaten up their resources. Also, just under estimating the complexity and how DND would evolve over time.

On the communications front, once a week dev updates but once a month would be nice. Not that I expect that. WoTC appears to have a different communications strategy.

 

[Clint_L]

I have to confess that I haven't noticed any difference with DnDBeyond since the acquisition. It's still a fantastic tool and everything works well. The Encounter Builder alone would be worth the price, IMO. That thing saves me hours.