D&D 5E D&D compared to Bespoke Genre TTRPGs

[Jaeger]

I never claimed it didn't. You've taken a general set of statements and responded to it as if it had been absolute. Everything has limits.

I have yet to see you acknowledge one for the 5e rules-set in 16 pages of posts.

People have given general examples of how the 5e rule-set does have certain limits.

"...general set of statements..." or not, you have defended them with a great fervor.

The salient question isn't whether I can easily mod the game for broad consumption.

But that's exactly what you implicitly claim in your OP and keep defending:

So, for me, "you'd be better off playing a game that is made for that" usually rings hollow. ...

And you continue:

The question is can I mod the game easily for a specific story.

And you go on to detail just how far you are willing to go to mod 5e for a specific story:

I wouldn't bother unless I was making a whole game based on 5e, but if it somehow served what I needed for a story, it'd be work that I'd enjoy doing enough that I wouldn't mind it.

I'm not going to pretend that 5e can't handle that sort of thing just because the process would be time consuming.

Compare the replies to me to the "...general set of statements..." in the OP:

Not only am I so familiar with it that I don't need to think about the rules to use them, but it is a game that is very easy to add to.

I can just add rules for that to D&D 5e, and D&D 5e absolutely can handle them without any problems.

It seems that "Heads I win, tails you lose." it is!

.

 

[CleverNickName]

Any chance of a cease-fire so this thread can get back on track?

I have run a couple of successful one-shot adventures for Esper Genesis, a science fiction RPG. It doesn't even try to hide the fact that it is essentially just 5th Edition Dungeons & Dragons, but reskinned for heroic science fiction. I've even seen it advertised as such ("5E in space!") in the Roll20 Marketplace.

And guys, it's amazing. The campaign setting is detailed, with different factions and races and weapons and vehicles, but the game mechanics themselves are the same things you've been using for years: armor class is still armor class, hit points are still hit points, save throws are still save throws, stats still go from 3 to 20, and so forth. It's proof-positive that 5E can be more than a stand-alone game, it can be a framework that can be used to tell all kinds of stories in all kinds of ways.

 

[Imaro]

And the irony continues. Another 200+ page game that ISN'T D&D to run my game. ROTFLMAO.

Its D&D in the world of Talislanta... thought I was pretty clear about that and I assumed you wouldn't need to read the world info, races, new background system, equipment lists, rules for large scale tribal interaction and all the other things that don't relate to a low magic game of D&D... or did you really need step by step instructions?

 

[MichaelSomething]

I, for one, thought that D&D was just a glorified war game but Matt Mercer proved me wrong! If he can use D&D to tell compelling stories with well developed characters, anyone can!

 

[PsyzhranV2]

I, for one, thought that D&D was just a glorified war game but Matt Mercer proved me wrong! If he can use D&D to tell compelling stories with well developed characters, anyone can!

I'd argue that Mercer's narrative prowess is largely orthogonal to D&D's mechanics, and in some cases in spite of them.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Here’s the thing....the thread has “versus” in the title, and it really doesn’t need to.

I enjoy D&D. I’ve had tons of fun with it over the years, and have made some of the best friends in my life because of it. So I’m not going to bash D&D. It’s a great game and people should play it.

But it’s not perfect. It doesn’t “do everything” that an RPG can do. And it’d be good for the hobby and for discussion of RPGing if folks branched out a bit more, tried to play some other games from time to time.

 

[Imaro]

But it’s not perfect. It doesn’t “do everything” that an RPG can do. And it’d be good for the hobby and for discussion of RPGing if folks branched out a bit more, tried to play some other games from time to time.

I don't think anyone is arguing that it's perfect or that it can do everything... I think what's being argued is that for some people D&D has enough examples and is flexible/hackable to the point that it is good enough for the majority of their needs. I don't really get how you disagree or argue against what is a good enough leisure activity for someone else...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

ROTFLMAO. The irony here is delicious.

"I want to run XYZ." "Here's a 200+ page book of rules for doing XYZ in 5e".

How is that any different than what you are complaining about? You just started this thread complaining that people suggest you try a new game in order to run XYZ. I suggest running a game, and your first response is to hand me a new game.



And the irony continues. Another 200+ page game that ISN'T D&D to run my game. ROTFLMAO.

Um...bud...there's no irony here. You think you've got some kind of gotcha, but...it's just not there. For one thing, those are both 5e DnD suppliments built to translate a sub-genre of fantasy to 5e dnd. My suggestion isn't even necessarily to just play AiME, but even if it was...it's literally a suppliment for playing 5e dnd in middle earth.

You can literally put a phb rogue in a party with the other classes, and mechanically it's fine.

I also have explicitly said several times that 3pp products are a great way to go when you don't want to learn a new system in order to play with a different genre.

You're inventing a gotcha and then claiming it.

I have yet to see you acknowledge one for the 5e rules-set in 16 pages of posts.

People have given general examples of how the 5e rule-set does have certain limits.

"...general set of statements..." or not, you have defended them with a great fervor.



But that's exactly what you implicitly claim in your OP and keep defending:




And you continue:

And you go on to detail just how far you are willing to go to mod 5e for a specific story:




Compare the replies to me to the "...general set of statements..." in the OP:




It seems that "Heads I win, tails you lose." it is!

.

You seem to have come here looking for a fight. I've no interest in that sort of interaction. I'm not sure you've even made a coherent point, here.

I mean, you seem to think that, "I can mod 5e to cover most stuff" and, "I am willing to do the work even in this case where I'm recognizing that it would be more work" are contradictory. They're...just not. At all.

Any chance of a cease-fire so this thread can get back on track?

I have run a couple of successful one-shot adventures for Esper Genesis, a science fiction RPG. It doesn't even try to hide the fact that it is essentially just 5th Edition Dungeons & Dragons, but reskinned for heroic science fiction. I've even seen it advertised as such ("5E in space!") in the Roll20 Marketplace.

And guys, it's amazing. The campaign setting is detailed, with different factions and races and weapons and vehicles, but the game mechanics themselves are the same things you've been using for years: armor class is still armor class, hit points are still hit points, save throws are still save throws, stats still go from 3 to 20, and so forth. It's proof-positive that 5E can be more than a stand-alone game, it can be a framework that can be used to tell all kinds of stories in all kinds of ways.

Yeah I really want to get a copy and play it, but I'm waiting till my group is playing a bit more often, and until we have finished at least one of our ongoing campaigns.

I don't think anyone is arguing that it's perfect or that it can do everything... I think what's being argued is that for some people D&D has enough examples and is flexible/hackable to the point that it is good enough for the majority of their needs. I don't really get how you disagree or argue against what is a good enough leisure activity for someone else...

Exactly.

 

[Hussar]

Its D&D in the world of Talislanta... thought I was pretty clear about that and I assumed you wouldn't need to read the world info, races, new background system, equipment lists, rules for large scale tribal interaction and all the other things that don't relate to a low magic game of D&D... or did you really need step by step instructions?

So, exactly how is this different from what the OP complains about?

I want to do X in D&D.

Here's a 200+ page supplement that does X for you to wade through, read, and understand it well enough that you can then cherry pick mechanics for your game that may or may not work with the core assumptions of 5e for you to use.

VS.

I want to do X in D&D.

Well, core D&D doesn't do X very well, but, here's a great game that DOES do X very well. You'll have to wade through, read, and understand it well enough that you can then cherry pick mechanics for your game that may or may not work with the core assumptions of 5e for you to use.

In either case, my point is proven. D&D doesn't always do XYZ very well. You need to kitbash it, and the irony here is that the first two suggestions I get for changing core 5e are two 200+ page rulebooks. Yes, I don't need to read the world info, but, really? Backgrounds are not needed? No equipment changes? How am I supposed to know that if I don't read it first? I know that using my Thule rules certainly required reading those sections as well as several others, INCLUDING a large chunk of the setting information.

Heck, how am I supposed to know what parts of AiME or Talislanta 5e are pertinent or not if I don't read it? Simply take your advice on what parts I should read? So, how is that different from pointing to a different game where you would do exactly the same thing?

 

[hawkeyefan]

I don't think anyone is arguing that it's perfect or that it can do everything... I think what's being argued is that for some people D&D has enough examples and is flexible/hackable to the point that it is good enough for the majority of their needs. I don't really get how you disagree or argue against what is a good enough leisure activity for someone else...

I’m not. I said people should play D&D.

But the premise of much of the thread is that it can do what other games do just as well as they can, and I think that’s a bad idea to put out there.

If that’s a person’s opinion, then hey, cool, play nothing but D&D.

But I can’t support that as a suggestion to others or for the hobby as a whole. It seems... counterproductive? Complacent?

D&D is one RPG among many. Collectively, RPGs have more to offer than just D&D.

If someone told me they only watched Kung Fu movies, I’m not gonna say they’re wrong for liking Kung Fu....I like some Kung Fu myself. But there are a lot of incredibly worthwhile movies that they’d be missing out on.