D&D FAQ gets it wrong?

[wildstarsreach]

See, I disagree with you. If the PrC had meant to require a 5th-level Wizard with 3rd-level spells, it would have had a requirement of 'casts 3rd-level Arcane spells'. Besides, the player is likely weakening herself anyway, as an Arcane PrC is likely to give her +spellcasting at some or all of the levels, in which case she would probably wish she had the four additional Wizard levels instead of Fighter.

I guess that we are going agree to disagree. Part of responsibly DMing to to look at this. It also means working with your players and having them tell you what they expect as a result. This gives you the ability to properly set the campaign level.

My last DM sugested a Kalashtar Psion. I was then reading the XPH and found Cerebremancer. I told him what I wanted, worked with the DM on making the character. At 20th level when we finished the campaign, Jaden was 17th Psion/13th wizard inclusive of 10 levels of Cerebremancer and a caster/manifester levels of 20th/17th with both having the appropriate practiced feat. In this case it made the character the most powerful of the party. I still worked with the DM for character concept so that it wasn't a totaling imbalancing character.

With acolyte of the skin it does say Caster level. This prestige class is in the Complete Arcane. It really should by intention be open to wizards. There really should not be 4 levels of fighter with one level wizard and PS allowing this PrC to be taken. I feel based on where this is found to be violating the spirit. WotC rarely thinks of all the perverted wonky class combos the full ramifications of their decisions.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I guess that we are going agree to disagree. Part of responsibly DMing to to look at this. It also means working with your players and having them tell you what they expect as a result. This gives you the ability to properly set the campaign level.

My last DM sugested a Kalashtar Psion. I was then reading the XPH and found Cerebremancer. I told him what I wanted, worked with the DM on making the character. At 20th level when we finished the campaign, Jaden was 17th Psion/13th wizard inclusive of 10 levels of Cerebremancer and a caster/manifester levels of 20th/17th with both having the appropriate practiced feat. In this case it made the character the most powerful of the party. I still worked with the DM for character concept so that it wasn't a totaling imbalancing character.

With acolyte of the skin it does say Caster level. This prestige class is in the Complete Arcane. It really should by intention be open to wizards. There really should not be 4 levels of fighter with one level wizard and PS allowing this PrC to be taken. I feel based on where this is found to be violating the spirit. WotC rarely thinks of all the perverted wonky class combos the full ramifications of their decisions.

Seriously, I challenge you to make a Fighter4/Wizard1/AcolyteoftheSkin10 build that is better than a Wizard5/AcolyteoftheSkin10.

As to the Cerebromancer, the main boost is Practised Manifester, which is arguably unbalanced even compared to Practised Spellcaster, particularly if you don't need psionic staying power because you have backup arcane spells. This is because you can Augment up low level powers as if you weren't missing the manifester levels.

 

[wildstarsreach]

How do you feel about Item Creation feats?

If this character at 6th level wanted to take Craft Magic Arms and Armor, do you feel he qualifies? The prerequisite is Caster Level 5, and his caster level is 5 (or 6, if he took another wizard level).

-Hyp.

Nope. I think that the intent is Wizard Level. However in this case that is not how the rule reads. I would add a requirement for knowledge arcana to be equal to a wizard maximizing this skill for the caster level. If caster level required is 7th, then the KA must be at 10. I know that this is a house rule but I still think that it is a way to circumvent the intent which is spellcaster level with the appropriate spells to cast as well. Craft wonderous items is more specific since it also requires the specific spells which may need a 4th or 5th level spell or whatever the specific spell is.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Nope. I think that the intent is Wizard Level.

I think that the intent is Caster Level... based on the fact that it says "Caster Level" in the feat prerequisites.

What are you basing your determination of intent on?

-Hyp.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Nope. I think that the intent is Wizard Level.

So a Cleric 5 couldn't take the feat? It says caster level after all, right? What about other ways to increase caster level, like the Loremaster PrC--are you saying that a Wiz/Loremaster can't take the high end craft feats?

 

[wildstarsreach]

I think that the intent is Caster Level... based on the fact that it says "Caster Level" in the feat prerequisites.

What are you basing your determination of intent on?

-Hyp.

Let us start with core rules only. In this case you would have to be the specific caster ie 5th level wizard rather than 1st level wizard with PS.

All other rules add but the intent you must start I think is with core.

 

[wildstarsreach]

So a Cleric 5 couldn't take the feat? It says caster level after all, right? What about other ways to increase caster level, like the Loremaster PrC--are you saying that a Wiz/Loremaster can't take the high end craft feats?

Not what I'm saying. Start with core and go from there. If you can do it in core then it should be okay beyond that.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Not what I'm saying. Start with core and go from there. If you can do it in core then it should be okay beyond that.

Ok, what level Paladin could take Craft Arms and Armor? 5th level? 10th level? 5th level w/ the PS feat?

 

[Rystil Arden]

Not what I'm saying. Start with core and go from there. If you can do it in core then it should be okay beyond that.

I don't think I understand this argument correctly, as it doesn't seem to make sense to me, so I'm sure I'm missing something. Are you saying that anything that isn't in the core isn't allowable even when using material out of the core? Because that just seems like a contradiction.

 

[wildstarsreach]

I don't think I understand this argument correctly, as it doesn't seem to make sense to me, so I'm sure I'm missing something. Are you saying that anything that isn't in the core isn't allowable even when using material out of the core? Because that just seems like a contradiction.

No I'm saying that you look at intent by what you can do with core rules only. Then you scrutinize carefully when you expand beyond core. Yes now you have where you can supplement caster level without actually earning let us say 5th level caster.

Even though a minor cloak of displacement requires only a 3rd level character to make, you must be at least 5th level to cast. I personally don't like the idea of using scrolls to create magic items but under 3.5 I believe that that is allowable. But if you have to cast yourself, then the above limits are where I'm coming from. To me there has to be some worth to taking a standard wizard. When you make only caster level, as most PrC's don't give you an increase in spellcaster level every level. I think that PS is giving too much for one single feat.

Caster level should be spellcaster level of PrC's and item creation.