D&D for very young kids

In an older thread, D&D for a Younger Audience, I posted this:

How would you modify D&D for a younger audience? What kind of rules would you use, and what kind of adventures would you run for your nieces and nephews or a room full of eight-year-olds?

On the Little Changes with Big Flavor thread, a few ideas came up:
  • Instead of having a creature die when it hits 0-(-10) HPs, and leave a bloody carcass, have it crumble into dust and blow away (or turn to stone).
  • The heroes are animals or children.
  • Their allies are animals
  • The monsters can be defeated through wits.
  • Fewer "boom" spells and more cursing or polymorphing.
  • Magic items as gifts rather than loot.
  • No distinction between arcane and divine magic, no Law or Chaos, etc.
 

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Ah, I almost forgot about that older thread mmadsen.

By the way, wsmith, how is the simplified version of D&D that you were working on coming along? Are you still working on it?
 

Ah, I almost forgot about that older thread mmadsen.

Lots of good advice on that thread, kenjib.

I particularly enjoyed Chronosome's one-word suggestion: Dinosaurs.

SHARK gave a lengthy reply:
Ahh, yes. Running games for the younger set. I ran a holiday-con at a friend's house over just last Christmas and New Year's. We played several days straight, 6-14 hours each. There were eight lads, 10-14 years old. Only two had ever played D&D at all. Even that wasn't much. These lads were just blown away by the game. They were so into it, wide eyed and everything. Some things that I did, were the following:

(1) Let the lads pretty much run whatever decent humanoid race they want.

Elves, Dwarves, Humans, Minotaurs, and Wolfmen were the popular choices. The boys were so jazzed imagining their cool teeth, or horns, or their various weapons. They were psyched!

(2) Keep the action flowing!

I interspersed some quiet moments throughout, but there was a certain rythm of encounters that kept rolling in. Whether it is in a dungeon, the wilderness, or the city, don't let the momentum slack. Adults can often get into deep conversations. Unless the youngster is especially interested in such, keep the combat action or exploration dangerous, moving, and dynamic.

(3) Build in time for them to shop and learn about equipment.

I scheduled rest-spots, and incorporated time sections where we could kill twenty-thirty minutes while the boys shopped for new armour, compared stats, and gloated over how great their new weapon was. They loved it!

(4) Integrate Time for them to talk with and relate to some of the strange creatures and races.

The boys just went nuts talking to Trolls, and negotiating with the Dwarves of Vandaghar. They were amazed at encountering flocks of red birds that talked, and elephant grass that lashed at them like long razor blades! They thought it was fun to talk to Ents, and to find strange, magical fruits.

(5) Use lots of mythology, classic creatures, color, and direct plots.

The plot was straight-forward, and quite successful. The kids loved it. These are some things that I have found to be successful.

And WSmith had this to say:
I love this topic. My daughter is getting close to gaming age.

*Consider the (I know someone will say something kooky, but here goes ) Pokemon KO rule. Instead of dying at 0-(-10), have the character knocked unconscious. The reasons are twofold. First, it allows them, as newbe players, to grow accustomed to their first character, and concentrate on the story and not rules such as dying, stabalization, etc. and might alleviate some of the disappointment of character death. I know, bad things happen, bad things shouldn't be avoided, I sound weak right? I am not saying that if they jump the top of a citadel they should survive (saving vs. death type situations). But, most normal damage inflicted could be done as subdual, not real.

I support even further with second reason. Since 3rd edition/d20 does not have a fast and clean character generation system in an abridged form (which I am still working on, hopefully soon guys ), similar to Basic D&D, character death would mean taking time away from gaming and rolling up a new character. You want to keep the action flowing. There will be plenty of Character death later on, but for their first few sessions, try to keep them interesed. Besides, they might get tired of being knocked out and waking up in a giant size bird cage suspended several hundred feet above the checkered pattern marble floor.

There are a couple of things I was considering for a pre-teen type game.

*Limit classes to arcane spellcasters for the PCs. Even if they want to be a fighter, that can come later with the easy multiclassing rules. In the first few tabletop games I played, I shyed away from magic-users cause I was not certain of the spell rules. Anyone can run a fighter, but to run a low HP, highly talented character takes a little practice. When they get the hang of the magic system, open up other classes.

Note: when I say arcane spellcasters, I mean wizards, sorcerers, AND bards. These classes allow the DM to craft situations that don't neccisarily lead to drawing steel. It allows them to find creative ways to best opponents. Instead of killing the guard of the captured princess, cast sleep, or darkness, etc.

The bard is very useful to pick up the slack in skills that the Wiz/Soc cannot have. Using the Pied Piper as inspiration, perhaps while the are adventuring the country side, then encounter a village where there is an infestation of giant rats or toads. The bard can use his music magic some how, to help the village and gain notority.

*If not using the above classes rule, consider one, (or two or three, but not too, too many) spells that all characters can cast. One staple of fairy tales if being put to sleep.

*If not using that rule, consider all classes able to use scrolls. The whole idea is to make them comfortable with the magic system.

*Use non-standard locations themselves to fascinate players. Imagine the bird cage above, a floating cloud castle, a giant city made of jade/gold/glass/etc., an underwater domed city, castles that only appear when the moon is full, etc. This age group may find it easiler to suspend disbeilief before they get old, jaded and cynical like us.

*Consider the focus of adventure trying to return home after some surprising event, such as a tornado, getting absorbed into a mirror, or lost in a snow storm only to come into a tropical clearing.

*Make all adversarial monsters nocturnal. They have all day to roam the countryside, but they better be near a castle by sundown, as camping is very, very dangerious!

*From the other big changes thread, make all magic items unique and give them each a name. There can only be one Caliph's flying carpet, or Short sword of spider's bane.

*Use lots of aerial encounters. Perhaps the campaign is set on a giant archepeligo, (sp.), and the most efficient way to travel from between islands is mounted on giant eagles, or flying carpets, or brooms of flying.

*Eliminate spell componets and in their place, make the requirment of an arcane focus item for all spells. Make the focus item different for individuals. One character uses a wand, one a staff, one a medallion, etc. Perhaps this is the motive for their first adventure, to find it, (like finding a familiar.)

I am sure I can think of more and will post them.

Lots of good suggestions.
 

Kargin el Tomath said:
Characters die. Thats part of the game. I'm sure we've all seen how some 20 year olds act when their character dies. Could you just imagine how a 5 year old would react. There needs to be a certain maturity level for the game. While it is fantasy some realistic elements still exist and some of these elements are to great for a 5 year old mind to comprehend.

Wow. Do you guys not remember fairy tales? The origin of the word grim? Old Yeller? Bambi? Don't sell children short, properly presented they can deal with more than you think.

That having been said, there was a great old module called Beyond the Crystal Caverns that might be highly suitable for children. A 'kick-the-door' approach was not rewarded, but a second level party could have made it through if they slowed down and talked to things.

-Andrew
 

Here is my dilema with the "Basic" version.

I pretty much have scaled back version of the 3e core rules done. It mostly was just a matter of omitting options such as feats, spells, equipment. But it didn't seem to be simple enough. So I started experimenting with another variant, which made some fundamental changes to the action system and the skill system. It was looking VERY good. However, it was moving away from a basic form of D&D and more to a different game on to itself. It is simple, and seems easy and fun to play. BUT, it only loosely resembles D&D. So, now I am caught between the point of: do I finish the core rules scaleback, where the characters are completely d20 street legal and portable after 5th level, or do I continue with the simpler version of a generic fantasy role playing game that is more newbie friendly?

Here is my other dilema. With the scaleback, I am now undecided if I want to use the Sorcerer or the Wizard. Tradition in mind, it seem to think I have no choice but to use the Wizard. However, since the spell list and feats are scaled back anyway, and the sorcerer needs not worry about memorization (I know that is a defunct term, but you know what I mean :) ), and can use all simple weapons anyway, (which is only a minor factor but helps keep the text consistant) it seems more conducive to introduce arcane casters as one who can cast on the fly. You tell the player to think about the situation, and cast the spell that is on your list. Aside from traditional, I see no reason why I shouldn't use the sorcerer.
 

The more I think about it, the more I think for my 6 year old (and possibly my 4 year old if she wants to play) I need to come up with something more like the old Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks: maybe just two stats: skill and stamina, and just use one dice (maybe my d30s because my kids like those big old honkin' dice that can get higher numbers if you try! :)) I'd rather introduce them to the concept of roleplaying via something where the rules are transparent, and easily portable into any type of setting I want. That way, I can play Harry Potter, Star Wars, Spy Kids or whatever I want in addition to D&D-like settings, and there's no learning curve for doing so.

I have to admit, though, in my enthusiasm for teaching them the concept of role-playing, I want to make sure the rules take a back seat. No reaon I can see to teach them that RPGs="lots of rules" at this point.
 

You really think a kid that young will enjoy this? Most younger children (im 13 i remember) like to do physical activities more. Dnd is like storytelling with representation, and unless the kid is very smart (i mean SMART! Like me, none of that good grades crap.) he enjoy it. As far as I was until about age 9-10 I wanted to do physical stuff, wich escalated to videogames, then to DnD.

I mean, just tell them some D&D stories (but of course as a story in character, no out.) Thats what I would do.
 

Just an FYI,

In my American History class today, the teacher asked us, "Who can give me a description of Fudulism." There was a pause. "Anyone a history buff, or played Dungens & Dragons in grade school?"

While I didn't start playing until I was 17 or so, I thought it was interesting that he thought of the game as being for a younger audience. The connotation was that, like 4-square or tag, it was something predominantly played by younger kids.

Now, I don't know if he's ever played the game before, so I don't know if he realizes how much math and interpritation is really invovled but it does fit this topic.
 

MutantHamster said:
You really think a kid that young will enjoy this? Most younger children (im 13 i remember) like to do physical activities more. Dnd is like storytelling with representation, and unless the kid is very smart (i mean SMART! Like me, none of that good grades crap.) he enjoy it. As far as I was until about age 9-10 I wanted to do physical stuff, wich escalated to videogames, then to DnD.

You got it, friend! That is exactly the reason I said:

Originally posted by WSmith
I agree with the LARPing angle. Go get some foam swords and bow and arrow sets, NERF launchers, etc. and actually play in character with your children. They have the whole adolescense to sit around a table and roll dice. Take advantage of their imagination and willingness to play a role in uninhibited while you have the chance. They will get to an age where they think foam swords are kids play. Heck most adults do to, that is why a lot of LARPers (I am not one and I don't play one on TV ) seem to get a worse rep' than us tabletop gamers. But, if you are running around the backyard with you 6 y.o. slaying imaginary dragons and saving fair madiens from towers, no one will think twice about you being kooky, heck they will probably say you are a good parent for playing and taking interest in your child.
 

remember all the non-playing aspects, my money says most kids could be introduced to "the game" thru miniature painting or mapping games...even thru drawing exercises and stories with game themes
 

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