D&D is Back!

[Scribble]

At least MY D&D is... You're opinion may differ, but:

I love the way the system is only as complex as it needs to be.

3e was a definite (in my eyes) improvement over several of the faulty points of earlier editions. It gave us a cohesive system built on a single idea. It let us add things to our games (like skills) and do so in a consistant and fair way. This was good...

But... It also tried to be a little TOO concerned about every detail. This got a liottle too robotic for me.

4e reminds me of the old days; not every single action you can try is spelled out with dcs and bonuses and penalties, but there is still a basic system framework in place that lets you fairly resolve these things.

Makes me think of my old 2e days you want to do what? Umm ok make a dex check... But with the 3e idea of fairness and ability to improve.

And I'm also loving what looks to be a fairly modular design. (whether by design or luck I dunno) It looks like I can somewhat easily mix and match ideas without having to do a LOT of math to keep things working properly...

Again makes me think of the old days when dragon was filled with new concept or idea after new concept or idea. I used to love that. But mixed with the 3e concept of making sure it's done in a way that interacts with the system in a way linked to the others.

The monsters and powers and rituals... Like the earlier edition diea of if you need the enemy to do or be something, make it that... but with the 3e idea of making sure you do it in a fair and balanced way.


In short... to quote McDonalds (yuck) I'm lovin it.

 

[evildm]

Totally agreed. It's been awhile since I read a rulebook and actually got ideas as I read it.

So far the only issue with the system is that combat in KotS seems to be taking a bit longer to resolve than I'm used to, but I'm beginning to think that's a fault with adventure design more than anything else. My own adventures, and even the ones I convert, will probably run alot quicker.

It also seems to have my players really excited about playing again, which is good enough for me.

 

[The Little Raven]

It's been awhile since I read a rulebook and actually got ideas as I read it.

Agreed 100%. 3e's books read like textbooks, and I'd often use them when I was trying to fall asleep. Less than five minutes with the book, and I've got an entire campaign dancing around in my head.

 

[Scribble]

Totally agreed. It's been awhile since I read a rulebook and actually got ideas as I read it.

So far the only issue with the system is that combat in KotS seems to be taking a bit longer to resolve than I'm used to, but I'm beginning to think that's a fault with adventure design more than anything else. My own adventures, and even the ones I convert, will probably run alot quicker.

It also seems to have my players really excited about playing again, which is good enough for me.

The fights can take a bit longer... but I don't think it's in a bad way. They really ARE more dynamic. (I didn't believe this until I actually played my first session.)

Especially those Kobolds... the little buggers run all over the place!

One of my players was actually getting mad at the mini... "Damn it you little rat stay still!"

it was fun to actually watch them use the terrain to trap the little kobolds in place long enough to really get em.

Next session is tonight, and I can't wait.

 

[Kichwas]

Totally agreed. It's been awhile since I read a rulebook and actually got ideas as I read it.

It also seems to have my players really excited about playing again, which is good enough for me.

This is pretty much a cut and paste of what so many people posted up here when 3E came out. the difference back then was that only a few people were disagreeing with them. It was a very small minority back then, now, it is a vocal segment, possibly not even a minority.

But the parts I have quoted from you, are statements that were being posted by the bucket-loads back when this site first came online and 3E was the new form of sliced bread.

 

[Tamvriel]

Great so your are all excited because they made it dumb enough for an ape to play D&D, small wonder that....

None of my players are excited by 4e, it just means that they have to spend more money on more books.

WoTC is doing for D&D what they did for Magic the Gathering, every time they perceive a loss of money, they put out an edition. BRILLIANT

 

[evildm]

This is pretty much a cut and paste of what so many people posted up here when 3E came out. the difference back then was that only a few people were disagreeing with them. It was a very small minority back then, now, it is a vocal segment, possibly not even a minority.

But the parts I have quoted from you, are statements that were being posted by the bucket-loads back when this site first came online and 3E was the new form of sliced bread.

I'm sure there'll be alot of things that people(myself included) don't like about 4e. It's inevitable. At first glance, it's looking good. 3e fixed alot of things that were wrong with 2e, and I still see it as a great advancement to the system. That said, at least at the outset, 4e is looking like it largely (not completely, of course) fixes the the issues I had with 3e.

Nothing man-made is perfect, and so I'm sure the same comments will be said about 4.5e or 5e down the road. But that's a long way off I hope, so 4e will just have to do for now.

Lastly, I remember people being resistant to 3e when it came out. That's fine too. It'll happen again in the future. If you're having fun with what you got, why change?

 

[evildm]

Great so your are all excited because they made it dumb enough for an ape to play D&D, small wonder that....

None of my players are excited by 4e, it just means that they have to spend more money on more books.

WoTC is doing for D&D what they did for Magic the Gathering, every time they perceive a loss of money, they put out an edition. BRILLIANT

Welcome to the boards! Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but a word to the wise that slander against other folks is not easily tolerated here, so mind the manners and try to have fun. Sorry that us ape-folk are having badwrongfun. We'll try to stop and go back to... uh... which edition do you want us to play now?

 

[Gothmog]

Great so your are all excited because they made it dumb enough for an ape to play D&D, small wonder that....

None of my players are excited by 4e, it just means that they have to spend more money on more books.

WoTC is doing for D&D what they did for Magic the Gathering, every time they perceive a loss of money, they put out an edition. BRILLIANT

Simplified, yes. Stupefied, no. The 3.x rules were in dire need of revision, simplification, and streamlining. 3.x plays great if you're playing a computer game of it- Neverwinter Nights for example is a lot of fun. The computer is designed to perform millions of operations per second, and keep up with all the nit-picky bits of the system. However, a computer game also keeps you on the straight and narrow path, not allowing anything outside what its programming allows. Thats exactly the experience I had running and playing 3E. If the rules don't tell you how to do it, or if there isn't a feat for it, then sorry, can't be done.

4E is a quantum leap forward in game design. The main influence I see on 4E is a LOT of Savage Worlds design elements, placed into the context of D&D. 4E supports character building, but without the glory-hogging and ego-tripping of 3.x. In 3.x, PCs were powergamed and min-maxed to become lone-wolf powerhouses to such a degree that rules mastery took over the game, trampling all over DM fiat, plot, setting, and story. PCs are designed to be part of a team in 4E, and if you don't play with the team, you die. 4E also has decreased the need for rules master, which is a HUGE plus in my opinion.

4E does feel a lot more like 1E and 2E to me- giving the DM more options and ways to handle situations according to his playstyle. 4E is much more freeform, flowing, and streamlined, and plays like a dream- I do a tenth the bookkeeping and prep I did when I ran 3.x. In fact, I got so disillusioned with the needless complexity, implied assumptions in the rules, and rules mastery elements of 3.x D&D that I swore off it completely and went to other systems. 3.x wasn't the D&D I fondly remembered from my childhood- it was a Frankenstein's monster of mathematical gymnastics consisting of mismatched and non-intuitive systems that felt and played completely differently than the D&D I loved.

4E on the other hand, while having different details (class powers mainly), FEELS like the D&D I loved when I play and run it. For me, the less intrusive the game elements are in the game, the more I get into the game and can visualize the world and my character. 4E has much more transparent mechanics in that regard, while we have found that after playing 6 sessions, combat flows about three times more quickly than a 3E combat, with little rules referencing in the middle of it. THAT is great game design. I bought over $5000 of 3.x books over the years it was out- I got some great ideas with them, and had some fun, but ultimately it wasn't the system for me. 4E is a much improved system over 3.x, and I have no problem giving WotC my money for this incredible game. Thanks WotC for bringing D&D back to us!

 

[Grimstaff]

Great so your are all excited because they made it dumb enough for an ape to play D&D, small wonder that....

None of my players are excited by 4e, it just means that they have to spend more money on more books.

WoTC is doing for D&D what they did for Magic the Gathering, every time they perceive a loss of money, they put out an edition. BRILLIANT

Ah, gotta love trolls...