D&D 5E D&D Next playtest post mortem by Mike Mearls and Rodney Thompson. From seven years ago.

[EzekielRaiden]

However, Level = Moar HP is so ingrained into what WotC D&D has become that it will not only never happen - Such a solution will not even occur to the designers or play testers...

It's not a matter of "ingrained," like you keep repeating.

This was literally their explicit design intent. They explicitly wanted HP growth (note how you always call it "bloat," in order to inject disdain for the concept right from the start, as opposed to a neutral word like "growth") to be the only remaining major demonstration of growing character power. You gain levels, and as a result, you cease to be scared of orcs and goblins; sure, they might hit you, but you can take a dozen such hits now no sweat. Thus you can actually have a dozen thrown at you and you're okay with that.

If someone says they want to remove the one thing the designers explicitly said was meant to represent character growth, it's not that big a leap to then ask "sooooo... what's going to replace that then? Because that's what the game was explicitly built to show advancement through." It's why BM Fighters get more extra attacks and bigger dice, but not better maneuvers, just more maneuvers.

 

[Haplo781]

It's not a matter of "ingrained," like you keep repeating.

This was literally their explicit design intent. They explicitly wanted HP growth (note how you always call it "bloat," in order to inject disdain for the concept right from the start, as opposed to a neutral word like "growth") to be the only remaining major demonstration of growing character power. You gain levels, and as a result, you cease to be scared of orcs and goblins; sure, they might hit you, but you can take a dozen such hits now no sweat. Thus you can actually have a dozen thrown at you and you're okay with that.

If someone says they want to remove the one thing the designers explicitly said was meant to represent character growth, it's not that big a leap to then ask "sooooo... what's going to replace that then? Because that's what the game was explicitly built to show advancement through." It's why BM Fighters get more extra attacks and bigger dice, but not better maneuvers, just more maneuvers.

Except that spells get better as you level...

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Except that spells get better as you level...

Why yes, they do! Isn't that such a strange coincidence. I wonder why they would include a mechanic which gives greater, scaling power to only some classes and not others, and then claim that they want HP scaling to be the primary representation of character growth? That seems so contradictory, but surely the designers wouldn't make a game that unfairly favors some classes over others. That would be utterly ridiculous...

 

[Minigiant]

You can have a reasonably charismatic fighter if you want, nothing is stopping you.

Meanwhile I think using charisma to attack is just throwing what charisma means out the window.

A fighter using Charisma to attack is them using taunts, feints, and brutality to increase their odds of hitting over raw strength.

The Charisma Fighter makes a lot of fictional sense. However it overshadows the more iconic or famous Strength fighter by a lot unless you put a major restrict on it. And 5e was designed at base to very simple. This offered little room to work with unless the designers had the passion to do it and the backing of the community.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Why yes, they do! Isn't that such a strange coincidence. I wonder why they would include a mechanic which gives greater, scaling power to only some classes and not others, and then claim that they want HP scaling to be the primary representation of character growth? That seems so contradictory, but surely the designers wouldn't make a game that unfairly favors some classes over others. That would be utterly ridiculous...

that's the thing I don't understand why people are so against giving martial classes scaling abilities

 

[Oofta]

we just point out that they do not have a prefect track record and that they make mistakes

There's a big difference between "I don't like some things and I think they made some mistakes" and "their surveys were incompetent and worthless". It implies that the entire playtest was bunk and that anybody who thinks they did a decent job is a fool.

 

[Oofta]

I guess you never saw a Hexblade then

Which explicitly rely on magic and pact with some otherworldly power. Which, if that's the kind of warrior you want to play, more power to you. Sounds like you already have your solution that doesn't involve a martial character using charisma to figure out how to effectively swing their sword.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Which explicitly rely on magic and pact with some otherworldly power. Which, if that's the kind of warrior you want to play, more power to you. Sounds like you already have your solution that doesn't involve a martial character using charisma to figure out how to effectively swing their sword.

You know I want a non magic warrior... so this whole post is just BS. any stat (although I always see con as the hard one)can be an attack stat for a fighter... doing it that way the fighter can be better at different things.
give a fighter some social abilities and some exploration abilities and let them attack with any stat, that would be closer to what I want. Give them choices in combat too different things they can do or not do.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

There's a big difference between "I don't like some things and I think they made some mistakes" and "their surveys were incompetent and worthless". It implies that the entire playtest was bunk and that anybody who thinks they did a decent job is a fool.

please quote where I said incompetent or worthless?

I said flawed, I said incomplete... this seems to be a thing on enworld now put up scare crows to knock down. then claiming victory.

 

[Oofta]

A fighter using Charisma to attack is them using taunts, feints, and brutality to increase their odds of hitting over raw strength.

The Charisma Fighter makes a lot of fictional sense. However it overshadows the more iconic or famous Strength fighter by a lot unless you put a major restrict on it. And 5e was designed at base to very simple. This offered little room to work with unless the designers had the passion to do it and the backing of the community.

We disagree. I thought it was dumb in 4E, time hasn't changed my mind. There's no reason taunting and brutality would work on an ooze or any number of monstrous creatures. Feints are dexterity.

In any case I don't expect it to change.