D+D Power Creep

Any items from AV? Like a dwarf with a Mordenkrad or stuff like Iron Armbands and Staff of Ruin? Any PHB2 feats like Expertise? Or multiclass feats like Bardic Dilettante? Or racial feats like Versatile Master?
Our group uses inherent bonus with home-brewed items only. Due to the twist and turns of the campaign, each of them had one "rare" epic grade item (linked the epic choice) with only 3 having any other item.

This party was "equipment poor"

A couple have expertise, but old school and house ruled (our house rule is every gets a +1 to hit at paragon, another +1 at epic and expertise feats give you a flat +1).

VERY little cheese in the group. Our warlord (eladrin) had multiclassed to get "Eladrin Swordmage advance" and thats about it.

So, equipment poor and cheese free.
 

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PHB 1 classes tend to be strong right out of the box (not so much warlocks and pallies) AND have better support since they can pull from several splat books and dragon articles. New classes tend to have far fewer options aimed at them (poor Runepriest and Seeker aren't covered in any relevant X Power booK).

Most of the power creep is from new feats (especially Expertise and its kind), and the item bonuses that became available with AV.
 

Yeah, basically the way I would put it is that with ONLY PHB1 you have a bit of an issue with most classes having limited options. In that sense PHB1 classes are a little bit underpowered, but it isn't because they're underpowered classes, just that this and that added option has come along since then, which they can fully take advantage of.

The evolution of the power curve in 4e IMHO has been kind of odd. PCs started out at low levels being somewhat low in damage output, but monsters were as well. Combat felt like chipping away at the enemy a lot of the time. There were also a few totally OP things though, like Rain of Blows. AV1 jumped PCs up quite a lot with the ability to get better superior weapons, many really advantageous bread-n-butter items like Iron Armbands of Power, etc. PHB2 tossed in quite a few more really good feats. This pretty well put heroic tier PCs where they should have been, but came close to breaking epic entirely.

Then WotC came in over time with a lot of nerfs on key things that people abused, and finally MM3 monsters showed up. Now combat is fast and furious and as long as you take your lessons well on how to design monsters and encounters epic and high paragon are working more as intended.

Basically if you're making sure to boost damage on MM1/2 monsters and adjust their defenses and HP down where recommended and using at least AV1 and PHB2 for extra options there really isn't power creep, just refinement. In a strict numerical sense, heroic tier and paragon PCs will mostly do more damage now and hit more often, yes, but they will also get beat up more and be much less able to just end key encounters right off the bat. 4e keeps getting better, which is a good sign for a game that has evolved this much.
 

Just wait til you get to paragon and run out of leader powers to take.

Well, we're not there yet, but I went Half-Elf, so I'm gonna take that cheezy Twin Strike
route, with Versatile Master so I've got it as an At-Will. I should have a Radiant Urgrosh by then, along with Radiant Servant, so I'll be critting on 19-20s. Yeah, I'm gonna be fighting for feat slots by the time its all over, but I'm hoping to help kill things fast enough so that we don't have to heal as much. I mean, they can't hurt you if their dead...er...I guess I should say if they aren't moving anymore. :)

Keep in mind, I've stressed to our group that I'm aiming for damage, with a secondary in healing. I'll be supporting a Psionic who's got primary healing for the group. The team consists of an Elvish Ranger, Assassin, Avenger, Psionic and my BattleCleric.

(should we fork this to a different thread?)
 


I think you make a good point about these feats, Prestidigitalis. That said, it is the opinion of this (mostly) humble poster that the game could use more feats to be like this. Many of the early and Dragon feats just felt... underwhelming? weak? boring? highly situational?

I like that the Essentials feats felt significant and powerful, while remaining flavourful. The expertise feats come first to mind. So much better than the boring old version. It may still be a tax, but it's one I don't mind paying as much. Kind of like a tax for which you get a partial rebate when you file your return.

I like the new feats as well.

I do believe that they represent power creep (to agree with you and Prestidigitalis).

In other areas of power creep, I'd probably add the AV1 weapons, which offered a whole gamut of amazing options for more martial-oriented characters.

I also would throw in the PHB3 and Essentials races, which have more choice for their ability scores. This makes the races more flexible, but it also makes older, not-updated races, somewhat of a lesser option in terms of certain builds.

All that said, 4e's level of power creep is SOOOOO manageable and easily implemented. As the main DM of our group, I don't have to spend time on quality control like I did for 3.X. This is one of the reasons I intend to remain with 4e, even if the line goes under. (oh nooos death spiral).

C.I.D.
 

All that said, 4e's level of power creep is SOOOOO manageable and easily implemented. As the main DM of our group, I don't have to spend time on quality control like I did for 3.X. This is one of the reasons I intend to remain with 4e, even if the line goes under. (oh nooos death spiral).

C.I.D.

Yesssssssssss

This is such an important point.

Even at their most powerful and their least powerful, 4e characters are still playing the same game. And 4e has significantly less "traps" then 3e had. And those traps hurt you far less.

At best, you do your role really, really good, and your team loves you for it.

At worst, you don't do your role all that well, and your team can hopefully shore up gaps for you or help you along the way (A good leader can make even the worst character shine brilliantly, after all!)
 

All that said, 4e's level of power creep is SOOOOO manageable and easily implemented. As the main DM of our group, I don't have to spend time on quality control like I did for 3.X. This is one of the reasons I intend to remain with 4e, even if the line goes under. (oh nooos death spiral).

Yes, I have found that also. Even 95% of the errata is not really needed IMO. 4E is a pretty slick system, and banning stuff is super easy. Even if you ban a power, the player still has multiple choices.
 

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