D+D Power Creep

[Sasahara]

Believe me, intelligence is not a requirement, nor is experience. This is the Internet.

LOL. Certainly not a requirement on the internet. However, I make it a *personal* rule to try to contribute from experience, with intelligence, and urbanity to any conversation I am part of. Maybe that's just cuz I'm old

 

[TerraDave]

come and get it just debuted in my last session and I lost track of how many crits the ranger got...so ya, at least some 08 options/builds are pretty good.

Of course, when I saw the title, I was sure this thread was about Fortune Cards.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

For the original OP, I think you'll do fine. Probably the simplest thing to do would be use the offline CB (not the new online one) up to its last update, incorporating the errata's/changes and run your campaign from there.

We're using everything in our campaign at our local library. We're up to level 18s now, and our Fighter and Paladin seem to be doing just fine.

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Bit off topic here, but I couldn't help but notice the refs to the strength Cleric. I'm playing one in my son's WOTBS campaign, and so far, I like him. He's at level 6 now.

Don't get me wrong, the nerf to Righteous Brand, Healers Lore, and surgeless healing hurt, but I think I'm going to be able to make him a capable damage dealer while still being a decent (not primary leader role) healer for our group.

Just a random thought.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

The biggest power creep that I see is in the feats made available in the Essentials books. Superior Fortitude and Superior Will are extraordinary, Resilient Focus is huge, and the Expertise feats (and Master at Arms) are awesome. The Disciple feats are more build-specific, but could be very helpful for many characters.

Last but not least, check out Battlewise for any Wisdom-based characters who don't also pump Dexterity. It's only found in the second Heroes book, so it's easy to miss.

For my own part, I like all of those feats, but they do represent a big jump in power from their earlier counterparts.

 

[OnlineDM]

The monk, for instance, gets movement AND attacks for all his/her at-will powers. Noone in the PHB gets such benefits.

The other replies here are all good, and my take is that you can have tons of fun with nothing but the original three books (though I would have recommended getting the Essentials equivalents instead for someone just starting out, but you're fine either way). Could you have more fun with some additional material? Sure. I would recommend using updated monster damage, though - it helps to keep fights from dragging and getting boring.

The one point I didn't see mentioned is that the Monk powers that have both an attack and a movement are Full Discipline powers. When you use a Full Discipline and you take advantage of both halves of it (the attack and the move, in either order), that uses up both your standard action AND your move action for the turn.

It is NOT the case that the Monk gets a regular move action and then a Full Discipline action on top of that. Yes, that would be overpowered, but it's not the case.

Just thought I should make sure that was clear.

 

[Sasahara]

The other replies here are all good, and my take is that you can have tons of fun with nothing but the original three books (though I would have recommended getting the Essentials equivalents instead for someone just starting out, but you're fine either way). Could you have more fun with some additional material? Sure. I would recommend using updated monster damage, though - it helps to keep fights from dragging and getting boring.

The one point I didn't see mentioned is that the Monk powers that have both an attack and a movement are Full Discipline powers. When you use a Full Discipline and you take advantage of both halves of it (the attack and the move, in either order), that uses up both your standard action AND your move action for the turn.

It is NOT the case that the Monk gets a regular move action and then a Full Discipline action on top of that. Yes, that would be overpowered, but it's not the case.

Just thought I should make sure that was clear.

No, I understand it's their move AND their standard action for the round. But it still gives them twice as many options per power than other classes.

I bought the main 3 books when they were published in 08, so haven't re-purchased them as the Essentials books. I've picked up the PHB2, Adventurer's Vault, and have Arcane Power and PHB3 on their way to me in the mail now.

I will see if I can interest my 3.5 group in giving 4e a try...

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I bought the main 3 books when they were published in 08, so haven't re-purchased them as the Essentials books. I've picked up the PHB2, Adventurer's Vault, and have Arcane Power and PHB3 on their way to me in the mail now.

For the record, the two Essentials player-focus books (Heroes of the F*) do not contain a lot of duplication with the "core" PHB series. Some feats are reproduced (i.e. carried over), and the races are reprints with additions and changes, but most of the material is new. You could do worse by also buying them.

I will see if I can interest my 3.5 group in giving 4e a try...

If your 3.5 group is anything like most other 3.5 groups I've known, you are facing an uphill battle. Good luck!

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

The biggest power creep that I see is in the feats made available in the Essentials books. Superior Fortitude and Superior Will are extraordinary, Resilient Focus is huge, and the Expertise feats (and Master at Arms) are awesome. The Disciple feats are more build-specific, but could be very helpful for many characters.

Last but not least, check out Battlewise for any Wisdom-based characters who don't also pump Dexterity. It's only found in the second Heroes book, so it's easy to miss.

For my own part, I like all of those feats, but they do represent a big jump in power from their earlier counterparts.

I think you make a good point about these feats, Prestidigitalis. That said, it is the opinion of this (mostly) humble poster that the game could use more feats to be like this. Many of the early and Dragon feats just felt... underwhelming? weak? boring? highly situational?

I like that the Essentials feats felt significant and powerful, while remaining flavourful. The expertise feats come first to mind. So much better than the boring old version. It may still be a tax, but it's one I don't mind paying as much. Kind of like a tax for which you get a partial rebate when you file your return.

 

[Sasahara]

For the record, the two Essentials player-focus books (Heroes of the F*) do not contain a lot of duplication with the "core" PHB series. Some feats are reproduced (i.e. carried over), and the races are reprints with additions and changes, but most of the material is new. You could do worse by also buying them.


If your 3.5 group is anything like most other 3.5 groups I've known, you are facing an uphill battle. Good luck!

I may look at the Essentials books, but I'm not looking to sink hundreds of dollars into 4e. (Sorry, WotC!)

I got this group to move from edition 2 to 3.5- who knows, they might make the leap!

 

[chitzk0i]

Bit off topic here, but I couldn't help but notice the refs to the strength Cleric. I'm playing one in my son's WOTBS campaign, and so far, I like him. He's at level 6 now.

Don't get me wrong, the nerf to Righteous Brand, Healers Lore, and surgeless healing hurt, but I think I'm going to be able to make him a capable damage dealer while still being a decent (not primary leader role) healer for our group.

Just a random thought.

Just wait til you get to paragon and run out of leader powers to take.