D&D (2024) D&D Pre-orders; this is sad

[Chaosmancer]

I feel like I should also point out something else. Most people here probably don't watch DnD Shorts. Content creator on Youtube, like the guy's energy if not always his rules takes.

He has been going over the 2024 material and he has a bit of advice for people... Do not pre-order. Not because WoTC is going to entrap you with golden chains of consumerism, but because there is no penalty to waiting until the books are released, and content creators have reviewed them. You lose nothing. [I lose something, cause I want them ASAP, but that is a personal failing]. He also points out that if you want to try many of the new rules and see if you like them... the playtest documents are free online and people have discussed them extensively.

IF someone truly truly wanted to... they could likely cobble together DnD 2024 by the end of 2025 by just watching Treantmonk and like three other channels.

And the thing is, as long as this hasn't hurt WoTC's ability to make money off of the 2024 books, which I doubt it will... then the next big rules change will likely ALSO come with a public playtest and the same thing will happen again. With how the DnD community is structured, and how the game of DnD works, you can't truly paywall DnD.

Sure CoD 2025 is digital only and when Ubisoft or EA or whoever decides to wreck the game which they first sold to you as a buggy mess that barely worked for $250 at early access with golden skins you can do nothing about it... because once the servers hosting the game are gone, you can't play the game.

But you can play DnD without the rulebook at the table. Once your campaign is started, as long as you know the options for level up... you can't stop people from playing it. So... the video game industry situation just logically doesn't make sense for how DnD and the DnD community operate.

 

[I'm A Banana]

With my Master Tier sub, my players get free access to all the content I own.

And in 20 years, will you still have that access to that content? With corporate shenanigans, with edition transformations, with, idk, a world where net neutrality is gutted and every website we access outside of the walled garden of our internet provider costs a fee? In a world where you're a teenager in Florida and your state has banned all "woke" content and so WotC can't sell D&D to teens there because it has some gay people in it?

With one book purchase, my players get free access to all the content in that book. And also, my children can look at the pictures in it. And also, the people I date see it on my shelf and can ask about it. And also, I can loan it to a friend I am not playing with. And also I have books that I've had for more than 20 years that work almost just as well as the day they were bought.

I like digital content, I like using digital tools, I spend (too much) money on them, but I'm also deeply, deeply suspicious of how ephemeral they are. I paid for the 4e compendium until the day it was shut down and STILL miss it. It's not a great alternative to a game that's playable offline. I'm fine with it in addition to that, but I'd hate if we were to try and shape the game around that model.

 

[Epic Meepo]

Ask yourself - who are your gamer freinds going to buy from, you or WOTC?

If all IP is free for anyone to use, my gamer friends won't buy any games from anyone. Not me. Not WotC. Not anyone. There will be no market for games anymore.

We don't have to theorize here. There are many countries where what we would call piracy is legal or where piracy laws are not enforced even if they exist, and in those countries you have small mom and pop shops selling copied goods and surviving or even thriving locally. They sell copied software or sell Dooney and Burke or Versace knock off purses or whatever. Those little companies do make money in those more free countries and the megacorporations have much less influence and much less penetration into those markets than they do into markets with stronger intellectual property laws.

If every country followed this model, there would be no intellectual property left for counterfeiters to sell. No one anywhere would be creating intellectual property with any resale value. Case in point, the IP the counterfeiters are using to make money in the example you provide is all IP created in countries with strong IP laws. If there were no countries with strong IP laws, the counterfeiters would have no IP to resell.

The reason the market is dominated by megacorporations in the USA and by and large the West is because we have and rigorously enforce laws to protect the intellectual property of megacorporations.

If you end all IP rights for everyone, you aren't targeting mega-corps. You're taking away the only thing protecting individuals and small businesses from predatory mega-corps. Intellectual property is the only arena in which the playing field shared by individuals and massive corporations which control the means of physical production is even remotely level.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

And in 20 years, will you still have that access to that content? With corporate shenanigans, with edition transformations, with, idk, a world where net neutrality is gutted and every website we access outside of the walled garden of our internet provider costs a fee? In a world where you're a teenager in Florida and your state has banned all "woke" content and so WotC can't sell D&D to teens there because it has some gay people in it?

With one book purchase, my players get free access to all the content in that book. And also, my children can look at the pictures in it. And also, the people I date see it on my shelf and can ask about it. And also, I can loan it to a friend I am not playing with. And also I have books that I've had for more than 20 years that work almost just as well as the day they were bought.

I like digital content, I like using digital tools, I spend (too much) money on them, but I'm also deeply, deeply suspicious of how ephemeral they are. I paid for the 4e compendium until the day it was shut down and STILL miss it. It's not a great alternative to a game that's playable offline. I'm fine with it in addition to that, but I'd hate if we were to try and shape the game around that model.

So you want it to stay as is?

As I see it now, there is no move towards didital only. I think 4e was way more digital dependent as player side core books were "updated" so much that after a few month theywere not worth the paper they were printed on anymore.

 

[Remathilis]

D. Play a different edition.
E. Play a different game.

F. Have your friends sit around and say "bang, you're dead" "no I'm not!" "Yes you are." Ad nauseum.

 

[Aldarc]

The video game industry is becoming increasingly icky in how it preys on consumers, particularly through its monetization practices. I can understand how anyone familiar enough with the video game industry would and could be worried about how its corporate-run monetization practices there could make their way into other hobbies, particularly when a corporation has a disproportionate influence over the hobby through its market-leading brand.

 

[I'm A Banana]

So you want it to stay as is?

As I see it now, there is no move towards didital only. I think 4e was way more digital dependent as player side core books were "updated" so much that after a few month theywere not worth the paper they were printed on anymore.

I said I like and use digital tools in the post you quoted, so no, I don't want it to stay as it is. I also don't want to lose what we have.

 

[the Jester]

You can now. In a couple of years you won't be able to.

Hard doubt

 

[Warpiglet-7]

The video game industry is becoming increasingly icky in how it preys on consumers, particularly through its monetization practices. I can understand how anyone familiar enough with the video game industry would and could be worried about how its corporate-run monetization practices there could make their way into other hobbies, particularly when a corporation has a disproportionate influence over the hobby through its market-leading brand.

People should buy what they can keep if it is an option and choose not to buy that which can be retconned online or disappear or be replaced.

I don’t think the game is going up in flames but people should vote with their wallet.

I am voting for what I can keep. I am personally not paying for a service that can change or tank the content.

But that is me.

Has anything like this happened with D&D beyond? I am not a subscriber/buyer and am asking because I do not know the answer.

 

[Parmandur]

Sure, but "get as much money as they can" cannot possibly turn into "and we will be forced into subscriptions to play the game of DnD at all" that people seem to think would happen.

Heck, "they released a buggy version of this thing for early access, and now I am forced to pay for it even though it is terrible" is also very unlikely to happen. Because if they go too hard into making it difficult to use the VTT... people will just go back to using the tools they are currently using.

WoTC is absolutely going to try and make money, but they can't use digital to release a version of the game of DnD that has rules that just refuse to function or that wipe your save file. The game is too different from how video games function.

Their model for a while has been to make playing easy, and upsell people on minis, etc. A VTT suvsidized by selling dice, minis and so on would fit well with thst strategy, which us plenty consumer friendly.