D&D (2024) D&D species article

[Chaosmancer]

See to me, them's the breaks. I'd rather a concept be represented logically than twist it into incomprehensibility in the name of "balance".

In short, to me, it not being a design concern is a mistake.

And you've made your stance clear many times. You have also had it explained to you why balance (not perfect balance mind) is rather important to the health of the game. We know you would prefer a simulation that strangles the game to death rather than balance that keeps it successful.

Oh, I know they had reasons for all the decisions they implemented. I just don't like pretty much any of those reasons. They are bad reasons from my perspective, and IMO they make a worse game.

Wasn't talking to you and people early in this thread were claiming there was no reason. Again, you are free to your opinions on a game you don't and have no intention of playing. Those of us who do play the game see the value in these decisions.

 

[Chaosmancer]

it is known fact that even within humans there exists variation in the different kinds of inteligence people may have, that people's brains can be wired differently and inclined to different kinds of information processing, some of us are better at data retention and recall, some people have greater emotional awareness and processing, others have sharper instinct and intuition, is it so out there that creatures with fundamentally different biological makeup to humans might have different baselines for these different kinds of inteligence?

that something about a half-elf brain is simply more suited for processing social matters than a human's or an elf's?

is that something that can be called racist when we aren't even talking about the real meaning of races?

Yes, it can.

And, just so we aren't getting it twisted here. Half-elves get NOTHING that a human does not get in terms of being "more suited for processing social matters". Half-elves get two skills that can be anything. The baseline expectation for humans is to get 4 skills that can be anything.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I was talking about cultural elements.

They replaced everything cultural with magical elements.

Nothing biologically physical.
Nothing biologically mental.

What elements of gnome culture were replaced by these abilities?

It does if the 300 lbs is muscle.

which for Orcs and Goliaths, it is

So every single Orc and Goliath is highly muscular and has a high strength? And it is impossible for Goliaths to be better able to lift things than Orcs?

 

[Parmandur]

Virtually no-one under 30 rolls dice unless they're playing with some aged DM who forces them to. It's pretty clear that even here rolled stats for 5E are in the minority, and in other places D&D is discussed, like the subreddit, Beyond, Discord and so on? It's a very small minority who roll. You can't predicate things on that.

So no it's not a valid assumption.


Quite the contrary.

That is contrary to my experience, and the Beyond data shows a plurality for rolling, between the three options (none of which are going anywhere, I am sure).

The array is not the baseline for the design of the game, it is an option that sits in the middle of the range of possibilities the design includes.

Abilities are something thst can be improved through practice and experience in the ayatem: a Fighter with an Intelligence of 6 could work to Intelligence of 20 by the end of the game, if they applied themselves to that.

Hence, a pre-Level 1 life experience of Abilities being expanded by what the character did and experienced is intuitive and not "classist" so much as "logical" (more logical than the progression of Character power in the game, in fact).

A Noble might not even take their floating ASI in Intelligence, but tha they have the option for more book-learning educational opportunities than a Farmer makes sense...but the Farmer can still be a Wizard with an Intelligence of 16-18 without an ASI.

 

[Chaosmancer]

or you give it some thought, like designers are supposed to, and find a build-your-own system that does not immediately fall apart. Others have done it, not sure why WotC should get a free pass for essentially failing

Because WoTC needed to work within the design they had already created. Sure, Shadowrun has a completely different system so they can make a completely different system. They also don't have 60+ species to work with, unlike DnD.

The only one that is close is PAthfinder, which was designed with racial feats. So yeah, they could tell half elves that they could take elf, half-elf, or human feats.... oops, it seems you can only be a half-elf/half-human with that system though. Per the rules, there is no way to be a half-elf/Half-Shoony. Now, maybe there is, but to make this work WoTC would need to turn every species into a series of feats, then check every possible combination, and this would also require making sure that all of this could be mixed and be equally balanced.

I've seen people attempt this for 5e. It has never worked in a good manner. It would require remaking every single species from the ground up and making the entire system function differently. Which they did not wish to do.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Beyond data shows a plurality for rolling

Did you know that when see the word "plurality" I know someone is lying by omission 100% of the time lol?

The actual vast majority of characters on Beyond are created by non-rolling methods. You know this. Please don't lie by omission. You personally previously taught me to pick up on the word "plurality" as a word people only use when they're trying to hoodwink you, however politely!

The rest is obviously nonsense. A Fighter could make themselves incredibly weak if they blew every Feat they had pointlessly increasing a stat they didn't need, sure. Why bring that up?

 

[mamba]

Or it could be fair to see it as elegant.

one could also see it as simplistic

 

[Parmandur]

Did you know that when see the word "plurality" I know someone is lying by omission 100% of the time lol?

The actual vast majority of characters on Beyond are created by non-rolling methods. You know this. Please don't lie by omission. You personally previously taught me to pick up on the word "plurality" as a word people only use when they're trying to hoodwink you, however politely!

The rest is obviously nonsense. A Fighter could make themselves incredibly weak if they blew every Feat they had pointlessly increasing a stat they didn't need, sure. Why bring that up?

There are three options for stat generation: the largest is "fill it in", which while not q00% rolling...is going to be mostly rolling.

Fact is, the game is balanced around rolling being fine...that's how the game works. As such, the smaller bands of the array and point buy also work.

But the main point here is, nothing prevents somebody from making a character with a non-Intelligence granting Background (and up to 10 of the Backgrounds will offer the opportunity for a +2 to Intelligence, so that's quite a variety) and putting an 18 in Intelligence.

And that is even without considering that customizing Backgrounds is verified to be something covered in the DMG, and will no doubt be normal in practice since we already know how easy it is.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

There are three options for stat generation: the largest is "fill it in", which while not q00% rolling...is going to be mostly rolling.

Like I said, the the majority of people don't use rolling. Changing the word "plurality" to "largest" is not going to change the facts. The majority don't roll.

And hell some % of manual is also going to be point-buy with more points and/or standard array with different arrays. Not an insignificant proportion either (though probably a minority).

And that is even without considering that customizing Backgrounds is verified to be something covered in the DMG, and will no doubt be normal in practice since we already know how easy it is.

Then why in god's name did they ignore their own polling, which had 70%+ approval for letting players customize it, and put it in the DMG, if it's easy and everyone is going to do it? (To be fair I do agree most people probably will, but I pity those who aren't allowed to).

 

[Micah Sweet]

And you've made your stance clear many times. You have also had it explained to you why balance (not perfect balance mind) is rather important to the health of the game. We know you would prefer a simulation that strangles the game to death rather than balance that keeps it successful.



Wasn't talking to you and people early in this thread were claiming there was no reason. Again, you are free to your opinions on a game you don't and have no intention of playing. Those of us who do play the game see the value in these decisions.

WotC 5e and other versions of 5e are close enough for me to feel taking part in the discussion is valid, but thanks anyway.