D&D Wargaming *ARMIES OF EVIL*

[Serpenteye]

I can lower his CR down to 15 again, since that is the rules, without changing the caster-level. There is no relation between either CR or HD to the caster level of spell-like abilities in the core rules (the Planetar is an example of both), and i have seen no rule to suggest the contrary in UKs system.
I think I could use some DM imput again.

 

[Pyrex]

There are a few counter-examples (namely the Planetar, I haven't found another yet), but nearly every creature (with SR) in the MM has SR~=(CR or HD)+10.

For virtually every creature in the MM the CL for their SU and SP abilities is <=(CR or HD)

 

[OldCrowe]

-Less versatility
-Lacks the best 9th level spells (Shapechange, Gate, Disjunction)
-His bab does not synergise with his sla's
-Low HD's makes him vulnerable to Holy Word etc.
-lower ranks in important skills
-Cannot be raised
-Can be banished

-Being able to cast any spell of 6th level or lower AT WILL is less versatile how?

-BAB is meaningless when you are chucking DC 40 Dominate Monster AT WILL

-SR 33 Makes an average roll negate most HIGH level caster's spell against him. An 18th level caster has to roll 15 or better to affect you with a spell.

-You need skills with this thing? There is no finesse to it. Dominate the other player's general, and beat his army to death with it.

-No one can be raised.

-See comment on SR regarding Banishment.

Re,

C. Rowe

 

[OldCrowe]

GAH! I completely missed the CR15 cap! I am going to have to do some retooling to get things under control.

Embarrassed,

C. Rowe

 

[Serpenteye]

-Being able to cast any spell of 6th level or lower AT WILL is less versatile how?

-BAB is meaningless when you are chucking DC 40 Dominate Monster AT WILL

-SR 33 Makes an average roll negate most HIGH level caster's spell against him. An 18th level caster has to roll 15 or better to affect you with a spell.

-You need skills with this thing? There is no finesse to it. Dominate the other player's general, and beat his army to death with it.

-No one can be raised.

-See comment on SR regarding Banishment.

Re,

C. Rowe

Good points, however a simple 1st level spell can protect anyone from Domination and Shadow Evocation only emulates spells from the Evocation school, and that at a reduced efficiency (60%damage if recognized as an illusion). Shades only emulates some Conjuration spells, also at a reduced efficiency.

 

[Drakknyte32]

Okay I was looking over the CR generation pdf and I noticed this on the last two pages.

The following guidelines are not set in stone, but simply present a list of typical parameters to assist in monster creation.

SPELL-LIKE ABILITY PARAMETERS
Caster Level <= Hit Dice
Total number of spell-like abilities <= Hit Dice
Highest Spell-Level abilities only function 1/day

SPELL RESISTANCE PARAMETERS
Spell Resistance <= HD + 12

 

[Pyrex]

... at a reduced efficiency (60%damage if recognized as an illusion). Shades only emulates some Conjuration spells, also at a reduced efficiency.

Just how often is the 'reduced efficiency' going to be a problem with save dc's in the 30's? Even the generals will frequently need a 20 to save.

 

[OldCrowe]

Stat Blocks for the Half Orcs

Half Orc Legionairre, Male Half-orc Fighter1 CR 1; Size: M Type HUMANOID; HD (1d10)+2; hp 7; Init +1 (+1 Dex, +0 Misc); Spd Walk 30'; AC 16 (flatfooted 15, touch 11), Javelin +2 30'/P (1d6+3 20/x2 Carried M ) or *Longsword +5 0'/S (1d8+3 19-20/x2 Primary M ) or ; SA: Orc Blood; Vision: Darkvision (60'), Normal AL: NE; Sv: Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +1; Str 17, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills and Feats: Intimidate +0, Ride +2, Swim +-2; Phalanx Fighting, Weapon Focus (Longsword)
Possessions: 3 Javelin, 1 Longsword, 1 Outfit (Explorer's), 1 Shield (Heavy/Wooden), 1 Studded Leather,

When units with Phalanx Fighting are adjacent, they receive +3 to AC

Half Orc Ranger, Male Half-orc Ranger1 CR 1; Size: M Type HUMANOID; HD (1d8)+2; hp 6; Init +2 (+2 Dex, +0 Misc); Spd Walk 30'; AC 17 (flatfooted 15, touch 12), Javelin +3 30'/P (1d6+2 20/x2 Carried M ) or *Longsword +3 0'/S (1d8+2 19-20/x2 Primary M ) or ; SA: favored enemy (Humanoid (Human)(+2)), Orc Blood, Wild Empathy (Ex); Vision: Darkvision (60'), Normal AL: NE; Sv: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +1; Str 15, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills and Feats: Hide +3, Listen +5, Move Silently +3, Spot +5, Survival +5; Point Blank Shot
Possessions: 1 Shortbow, 50 Arrows, 1 Buckler 1 Longsword, 1 Outfit (Explorer's), 1 Studded Leather,
Ranger - Known:

Half Orc Cleric, Male Half-orc Cleric1 CR 1; Size: M Type HUMANOID; HD (1d8)+2; hp 6; Init +0 (+0 Dex, +0 Misc); Spd Walk 20'; AC 15 (flatfooted 15, touch 10), Javelin +0 30'/P (1d6+1 20/x2 Carried M ) or Longspear +2 0'/P (1d8+1 20/x3 Carried M ) or Morningstar +1 0'/BP (1d8+1 20/x2 Carried M ) or ; SA: +4 to Concentration to use spell or spelllike ability, Orc Blood, Rebuke Undead 2/day (turn level 1) (turn damage 2d6+0), Spontaneous casting; Vision: Darkvision (60'), Normal AL: NE; Sv: Fort +4, Ref +0, Will +4; Str 13, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8
Skills and Feats: Concentration +6, Heal +3, Knowledge (Religion) +1, Spellcraft +2; Combat Casting, Weapon Focus Long Spear
Possessions: 3 Javelin, 1 Longspear, 1 Morningstar, 1 Shield (Heavy/Wooden), 1 Studded Leather,

Deity: Gruumsh Domains: War, Evil

Cleric - Prepared:

Spells per day: 3/2+1

0 [DC12]: x, x, x
1 [DC13]: x, x, x


Half Orc Bard, Male Half-orc Bard1 CR 1; Size: M Type HUMANOID; HD (1d6)+2; hp 5; Init +1 (+1 Dex, +0 Misc); Spd Walk 30'; AC 17 (flatfooted 15, touch 12), Javelin +2 30'/P (1d6+2 20/x2 Carried M ) or *Sword, Short +2 0'/P (1d6+2 19-20/x2 Primary M ) or ; SA: Bardic music 1/day, Countersong (Su), Fascinate (Sp) - can effect 1 creature, Inspire Courage (Su) +1, Orc Blood; Vision: Darkvision (60'), Normal AL: NE; Sv: Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +1; Str 15, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 13
Skills and Feats: Gather Information +5, Hide +2, Listen +5, Move Silently +2, Perform (Sing) +5; Point Blank Shot
Possessions: 3 Javelin, 1 Outfit (Explorer's), 1 Shield (Heavy/Wooden), 1 Studded Leather, 1 Sword, Short,
Bard - Known:
Level 0: Detect Magic, Know Direction, Message, Prestidigitation,

Half Orc Sorceror, Male Half-orc Sorcerer1 CR 1; Size: M Type HUMANOID; HD (1d4)+2; hp 4; Init +0 (+0 Dex, +0 Misc); Spd Walk 30'; AC 10 (flatfooted 10, touch 10), Morningstar +0 0'/BP (1d8 20/x2 Carried M ) or Crossbow, Light +0 80'/P (1d8 19-20/x2 Carried M ) or *Longspear +0 0'/P (1d8 20/x3 Both M ) or ; SA: +4 to Concentration to use spell or spelllike ability, Orc Blood, Summon Familiar; Vision: Darkvision (60'), Normal AL: NE; Sv: Fort +2, Ref +0, Will +2; Str 10, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 13
Skills and Feats: Knowledge (Arcana) +4, Spellcraft +4; Combat Casting
Possessions: 2 Bolts, Crossbow (10), 1 Morningstar, 1 Crossbow, Light, 1 Longspear,
Sorcerer - Known:
Level 0: Detect Magic, Flare, Message, Ray of Frost,
Level 1: Mage Armor, Color Spray


Half Orc Rogue, Male Half-orc Rogue1 CR 1; Size: M Type HUMANOID; HD (1d6)+2; hp 4; Init +2 (+2 Dex, +0 Misc); Spd Walk 30'; AC 15 (flatfooted 13, touch 12), Javelin +2 30'/P (1d6 20/x2 Carried M ) or *Longspear +1 0'/P (1d8+1 20/x3 Both M ) or Morningstar +1 0'/BP (1d8+1 20/x2 Carried M ) or ; SA: Orc Blood, Sneak Attack +1d6, Trapfinding; Vision: Darkvision (60'), Normal AL: NE; Sv: Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +0; Str 13, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills and Feats: Disable Device +4, Gather Information +4, Hide +3, Move Silently +3, Open Lock +6, Search +4, Spot +4; Point Blank Shot
Possessions: 3 Javelin, 1 Thieves' Tools, 1 Longspear, 1 Morningstar, 1 Outfit (Explorer's), 1 Studded Leather, 1 Sap

 

[Serpenteye]

So, if I drop the caster level down to 15, lose the 9th level spells and pick up weaker lower-level equivalents (Dominate Person and Greater Shadow Conjuration respectively) would that be ok?
Keep in mind that he won't really benefit much from future leveling since his powers will not stack with spells given by class-levels. In the long term this character is not a very powerful one.

 

[Pyrex]

You don't have to add PC levels as he gains power. It's possible to add CR in other ways (i.e. the dragon was going to gain age categories with XP)