D&D 5E D&DNext WotC Adventures

[Morrus]

You don't? A 64-128 page adventure is something you easily grasp? For me, that's a lot of information to digest*.

*Btw, I read a lot, probably around 20-70 books a year and my reading speed is quite high.

Reading speed doesn't really come into it. Assuming it's a good, well-written adventure, the reading if it is a pleasurable experience for me. I don't enjoy reading notes, though.

If it's not a good, well-written adventure then I'm not interested in it. Just like novels which aren't good or well-written.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Reading speed doesn't really come into it. Assuming it's a good, well-written adventure, the reading if it is a pleasurable experience for me. I don't enjoy reading notes, though.

If it's not a good, well-written adventure then I'm not interested in it. Just like novels which aren't good or well-written.

The trouble is, the vast majority of adventures released are not good or well-written (90% of everything etc. etc.). Particularly first-party WotC ones. And one has essentially little to know way of knowing which an adventure is prior to buying it unless it is both:

A) Spectacularly terrible to the point where people want to mock it publicly (as opposed to just plain bad or mediocre)

AND

B) Has enough publicity that it's actually getting reviews from people who aren't essentially friends of the author(s).

Otherwise it's likely to have no reviews or just positive 4-5 star ones from people predisposed to like it.

As for 64-128 pages, I think it's fair to say that for a lot of people, as pleasurable as it might be, it can be difficult to find the time to read through all that, especially if one has bought an adventure specifically in order to speed up session preparation! I've personally also experienced an issue that, the most enjoyable adventures to read are almost always linear-narrative-style ones, but in practice, this kind of presentation can get in the way of running it, and it also tends to be associated with rather linear adventures, whereas I personally prefer "scenario"-type adventures (a good example of the latter for D&D would be Logan Bonner's "Blood Money" (I think it was called) for 4E, which is in Dungeon).

I'd also like to see adventures marketed more as "by so-and-so", because honestly, authorship matters. It matters a ton. I would never buy another adventure by Mike Mearls (no insult to him), but would be excited to see one which was by Logan Bonner. This goes along with your "like a good book", of course. When you find an adventure writer you like, you tend to like most of their stuff, but it's often quite difficult to find out who actually wrote a given adventure, and sometimes APs change authors part-way through, or the like.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Reading speed doesn't really come into it. Assuming it's a good, well-written adventure, the reading if it is a pleasurable experience for me. I don't enjoy reading notes, though.

If it's not a good, well-written adventure then I'm not interested in it. Just like novels which aren't good or well-written.

My point about reading speed was just that I don't take a long time to read through an adventure, but I can find them hard to grasp anyway. It especially applies when I want to do a modification, like removing a DM-PC (like the one you have in WotBS).

I do think there is a middle ground between notes and an adventure with boxed text. Typically I want more of the plot and motivations to be written out, and instead of detailing encounters, I would often prefer a description that doesn't assume too much about what has happened before. For instance, instead of describing a castle with guards room by room over 30 pages, I would really prefer a short description of where the guards are at certain times and their behaviour. I could then create the encounters that occur from how the PC's behave. I think the encounter layout used in 4e is really bad and makes for more less dynamic around the PC's actions.

 

[Mistwell]

It hurts me because all the basic details about what are in the room are described only in the read-aloud text. That basically forces me to read all of it, at least mentally, while I'm running the adventure.

I don't see how this is meaningfully different than what you'd have to do if there were no boxed text.

Why do you like read-aloud text?

Because it breaks down what the players can see, and what is DM-only information, and does it in a manner so that if I was short on prep time or just had to grab this adventure because they players went off and did something unexpected in a sandbox game, the odds are the boxed text will suffice.

I am in the middle of doing that right now. Players are in a home-brew dungeon, they took off in a direction I didn't expect them too, so I stuck the Duerger level from Scourge of the Sword Coast in there on the fly. The boxed text let me simply read it outright to them as they entered the room, with the assurance that no secret doors, hidden treasure, or hidden monsters would be revealed by that text.

I was able to change a couple details on the fly which are not appropriate for this adventure (they tied to the meta-plot of Scourge), and I had the time to do that because the boxed text meant I didn't need to spend that time figuring out room descriptions.

 

[Emerikol]

I think a good adventure module evokes a feel and like Morrus I want it well written. I am though sympathetic to those who want fast access at adventure time to the essential data.

I remember my first AD&D module that I ever read. D1 Descent into the depths. It was great at evoking that strange underworld feel. Even the black and white art seemed appropriate given the setting.

I love good adventures. I almost always rewrite the fluff to fit my own campaign setting when I use them but I still like to use one as a change of pace on occasion. To me, adventures are vastly more important to D&D than splat books but that is a player perspective and not a Wotc marketing/revenue perspective.

 

[pming]

Hiya.

Since it seems we have wandered a bit off into "what I think makes a good D&D adventure module", here's one that I find almost as perfect as Keep on the Borderlands: https://rpgcharacters.wordpress.com/maps/dysons-delve/

It's 11 (kinda/sorta 12, actually) dungeon levels. Each is on a map roughly 150' x 150' in dimension. Each level fits one ONE PAGE...that's the map of the level, a list of entrances & exits, a wandering monster list, and the description/contents of each numbered location (about 12 per level). I used the compiled PDF of the above (available free DL on that link; just scroll down a smidge) for a 1e campaign that lasted about 8 months. In that time, they had just gotten to the 8th level. The story I had was that a young (9'ish) farm boy from a nearby village finely made good on his threats to his parents about "running away forever". His parents were a bit strict, and he a bit headstrong. Anyway, Billum was his name, ended up deciding to hide in the nearby caves his parents warned him to stay away from. He didn't come back. PC's enter and go on the hunt for young Billum. (there was/is a LOT more going on in the background that the PC's haven't quite discovered yet!).

The beauty of the above structure (lots of small maps, each level fitting on one page) is what I call the "ease of imaginative play". Basically, as a DM, you can take 5 minutes to skim over the dozen or so pages. In doing so, your imagination will automatically start to picture things and give you ideas; ideas you can use instantly to get the ball rolling. You can easily "wing" putting in specific info, NPC encounters, items, etc. so as to fit the story background you came up with in those 5 minutes of perusing. In my Dyson's Delve, I got the feeling of, for some reason, "water"; so I had the first few levels be an ancient "Old Faith" (druidic) focusing on waterways and fishermen. My descriptions of walls, floors, doors, knick-nacks, etc were all oriented towards that overall "vibe".

Long story short'ish...it was a helluva lot of fun for all of us! Alas, some nasty critters down on level 8 killed almost all the group (only the archer survived...and a newly rescued wizard). That said, everyone talks about it and is eager to start it up again and see if they can best the lower levels!

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Mistwell]

Hiya.

Since it seems we have wandered a bit off into "what I think makes a good D&D adventure module", here's one that I find almost as perfect as Keep on the Borderlands: https://rpgcharacters.wordpress.com/maps/dysons-delve/

It's 11 (kinda/sorta 12, actually) dungeon levels. Each is on a map roughly 150' x 150' in dimension. Each level fits one ONE PAGE...that's the map of the level, a list of entrances & exits, a wandering monster list, and the description/contents of each numbered location (about 12 per level). I used the compiled PDF of the above (available free DL on that link; just scroll down a smidge) for a 1e campaign that lasted about 8 months. In that time, they had just gotten to the 8th level. The story I had was that a young (9'ish) farm boy from a nearby village finely made good on his threats to his parents about "running away forever". His parents were a bit strict, and he a bit headstrong. Anyway, Billum was his name, ended up deciding to hide in the nearby caves his parents warned him to stay away from. He didn't come back. PC's enter and go on the hunt for young Billum. (there was/is a LOT more going on in the background that the PC's haven't quite discovered yet!).

The beauty of the above structure (lots of small maps, each level fitting on one page) is what I call the "ease of imaginative play". Basically, as a DM, you can take 5 minutes to skim over the dozen or so pages. In doing so, your imagination will automatically start to picture things and give you ideas; ideas you can use instantly to get the ball rolling. You can easily "wing" putting in specific info, NPC encounters, items, etc. so as to fit the story background you came up with in those 5 minutes of perusing. In my Dyson's Delve, I got the feeling of, for some reason, "water"; so I had the first few levels be an ancient "Old Faith" (druidic) focusing on waterways and fishermen. My descriptions of walls, floors, doors, knick-nacks, etc were all oriented towards that overall "vibe".

Long story short'ish...it was a helluva lot of fun for all of us! Alas, some nasty critters down on level 8 killed almost all the group (only the archer survived...and a newly rescued wizard). That said, everyone talks about it and is eager to start it up again and see if they can best the lower levels!

^_^

Paul L. Ming

And to me, you can get almost the same thing using a computer program. No, I take that back, not almost. You can get every single thing in that module, using a good computer program. It's mostly just random maps following a set structure, and random encounters following a set structure, with random treasure and traps following set structures.

That, to me, is not something I'd pay for. It's a rough draft without the human element put in. In fact, it's even worse than the rough draft of Dwimmermount that practically the entire universe of investors in that Kickstarter exploded in anger over until one of the parties agreed to actually finish the damn thing with the human element.

I am not saying it can't be fun - obviously it can. But, that's not really an adventure package you can sell people on a widespread basis.

 

[Dyson Logos]

And to me, you can get almost the same thing using a computer program. No, I take that back, not almost. You can get every single thing in that module, using a good computer program. It's mostly just random maps following a set structure, and random encounters following a set structure, with random treasure and traps following set structures.

That, to me, is not something I'd pay for. It's a rough draft without the human element put in. In fact, it's even worse than the rough draft of Dwimmermount that practically the entire universe of investors in that Kickstarter exploded in anger over until one of the parties agreed to actually finish the damn thing with the human element.

I am not saying it can't be fun - obviously it can. But, that's not really an adventure package you can sell people on a widespread basis.

Thou dost wound me.

 

[Mistwell]

Thou dost wound me.

Sorry mang. Not saying it's not cool. Just saying it's not an adventure...more like a DM's tool for the DM who wants a short cut to making their own adventures. Which is helpful...just not what I'd call a module or adventure in itself.

 

[pming]

Hiya.

And to me, you can get almost the same thing using a computer program. No, I take that back, not almost. You can get every single thing in that module, using a good computer program. It's mostly just random maps following a set structure, and random encounters following a set structure, with random treasure and traps following set structures.

That, to me, is not something I'd pay for. It's a rough draft without the human element put in. In fact, it's even worse than the rough draft of Dwimmermount that practically the entire universe of investors in that Kickstarter exploded in anger over until one of the parties agreed to actually finish the damn thing with the human element.

I am not saying it can't be fun - obviously it can. But, that's not really an adventure package you can sell people on a widespread basis.

See, this is one of the cool things about RPG's. You can have two more or less completely different views on what is "the best way", and yet both people are still playing the same game.

I'm not saying I don't like adventures that are more or less completely fleshed out, I'm saying I very much prefer to add that "human element" myself. It has been my experience that coming up with plots, sub-plots, NPC motivations and personalities, etc. is the least time consuming of my DM duties. Drawing a dozen maps (dungeon or otherwise), creating wandering monster charts for each one, and finally 'stocking' said dozen-level adventure, is what takes the most amount of time. I want an adventure I can call my own...by more or less deciding on how it is going to be run and how it's going to fit into my campaigns structure and player preference.

Different strokes and all that I guess...

^_^

Paul L. Ming