d20 backlash??

[Akrasia]

Well, for someone who didn't want to debate it, you sure put a lot of explanation into it.

Yes, I have a funny habit of doing things like that.

WoTC, from what I understand, had license to do one book. They did. Chaosium never followed up with new products. Pulp Cthulhu is over two, maybe three years late. Saying Cthulhu d20 failed because there are no new books for it is an inacurrate statement as there never were going to be any new, WoTC books, for it.

Saying Chaosium failed to support it on the other hand, is an apt statement. Many Chaosium fans do indeed prefer the BRP version but the d20 version brought in many new people who'd never bothered with CoC in the first place.

And as far as being dead... well it's been alive in several of my games. Heck, there are still people playing OD&D. So no, I disagree with you here. It didn't fail as it was a one-shot deal. Chaosium failed to support it. BIG difference.

Okay, thanks for your perspective and insight.

It was a very minor point in my original post in any case.

My point was: people are starting to realize that d20 is simply inappropriate for many games and genres. (I happen to think that CoC is one such genre, but my point hardly depends on that single example.)

 

[Akrasia]

The golden age of gaming wasn't in the 80s when everyone played AD&D or Traveller...

It is highly debatable whether more people were playing RPGs in the 80s than now. There is no clear data one way or the other (promotional materials from WotC notwithstanding).

What is definitely incorrect is your assertion that 'everyone played AD&D or Traveller'. I recall playing Top Secret, Space Opera, Star Frontiers, Dragonquest, MERP, Rolemaster, Runequest (2nd ed), Gangbusters, WFRPG, Stormbringer, and many other games in the 1980s.

 

[JoeGKushner]

My point was: people are starting to realize that d20 is simply inappropriate for many games and genres. (I happen to think that CoC is one such genre, but my point hardly depends on that single example.)

I can agree with this 100%.

I certainly wouldn't want to play Exalted using d20, but to be honest, I'd love to see some OGL rules that tried to do it as I don't think d20 could in and of itself handle it.

I also think way too many companies got on the d20 bandwagon and produced... mediocore books or books that weren't appropriate to the d20 crowd. AEG is a good example of this. Fans of the system may be used to paying $25 for a 96 page book, but hell, even now, I can buy a new book like Shadows and Light for Warcraft that's $25 and twice that size.

 

[DaveMage]

I think it's the simple fact that there's already so many d20 products available that sales of a particular niche product (such as L5R) may be better served by not being d20.

However, I'm in favor of a d20 slowdown simply because it's easier on my wallet.

Also, at this point, all I want from d20 is adventures, campaign settings, and game aids (such as the Battlebox). No more rulebooks, please.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Also, at this point, all I want from d20 is adventures, campaign settings, and game aids (such as the Battlebox). No more rulebooks, please.

I agree with the game aids but man, how many more campaign settings could we possibly use? One of the things I like about rulebooks is that they allow you to do whatever you want with your current setting or even make your own.

I'd rather have another Unearthed Arcana than another Mythic Vistas book.

 

[Gomez]

Well, based on the fact that the game is dead -- i.e. no new material is being produced for it, and Chaosium's new stuff does not support d20. Maybe Chaosium is indeed too poorly run to have taken advantage of CoC d20. I don't know about that. But the game is dead.

I have zero interest in debating this, in any case, except to remark that the BRP version is far more appropriate for the subject matter than the d20 system. I suspect that most CoC fans also realize this, hence the continued popularity of BRP CoC, and the abandonment of d20 CoC.

As president of the Call of Cthulhu d20 Preservation Society, I categorically deny that CoC d20 is dead! Just dreaming!

"In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu d20 waits dreaming."

That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.

 

[Insight]

You're crazy if you think d20 is dying off. There are more and more d20 products coming out every month, and I am seeing far fewer non d20 books on the shelves every day.

This is unfortunate, as I am not a proponent of homogenous gaming. But that's the way it is right now, and there's little we can do about it.

As for the golden age of gaming, this wholly depends on your age. I am of the belief that the 'golden age of gaming' was in the late 80s. But really, what are you using as a definition? That's when I recall having the most fun gaming. That's my definition anyway.

 

[DaveMage]

I agree with the game aids but man, how many more campaign settings could we possibly use? One of the things I like about rulebooks is that they allow you to do whatever you want with your current setting or even make your own.

I'd rather have another Unearthed Arcana than another Mythic Vistas book.

Well, to me campaign settings and adventures are similar animals. They are all about adventure creativity. I love that sort of thing.

As for rules, the fact that there are already so many rules and rules variants within the d20 system means that I don't need any more options - even UA-style ones.

 

[DaveMage]

As for the golden age of gaming, this wholly depends on your age. I am of the belief that the 'golden age of gaming' was in the late 80s. But really, what are you using as a definition? That's when I recall having the most fun gaming. That's my definition anyway.

I think this is a great point. For me, the "golden age of gaming" was the mid 80s, when I was between the ages of 13-17. I actually had *time* to play every weekend, and during the summer breaks, I sometimes would play for hours each day.

I really miss that.

 

[Insight]

Well, to me campaign settings and adventures are similar animals. They are all about adventure creativity. I love that sort of thing.

As for rules, the fact that there are already so many rules and rules variants within the d20 system means that I don't need any more options - even UA-style ones.

I would like someone (probably have to be WOTC) put out some adventures that actually use variants from UA. That book is chock full of great ideas that most folks unfortunately never use. At least not in my experience. The only thing we've done from it so far in my game are the Prestige Class variants for Ranger and Paladin.