d20 Blackmoor - Worth buying?

Mouseferatu: I get it, but there are dozens of settings appealing to those folks who like their D&D fantasy generic. The big boy on the block here is the Realms... And there are many others. Can and should Blackmoor compete with the Realms? Or should it stress its differences? After all, the Scarred Lands is hardly typical - yet it was and remains reasonably popular among d20 players.
 

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I understand Blackmoor is Dave Arneson's baby, and that maybe this is his attempt to "set the record straight"; to present BM as he wanted it, which he never had the chance to do at first.

However, I don't think the market is really there for vanity settings anymore. It really doesn't matter if its R. Bumquist Unknowngamer's "fantasy realm" or Dave Arneson's "Blackmoor".. yea, hooray for you for having your own world, dude, but it better be different and interesting in some way or I'm not going to buy it.

You have to ask, given the current presentation of BM, what does it have that you can't do with Eberron or FR or Greyhawk or etc. etc. etc.

What they could have had, that would have been unique, is to present a fantasy world with a strong sci-fi element, a setting that wasn't "dragonstar" or something like that, because all the sci-fi was alien tech thatthe current medieval society couldn't possibly reproduce, so instead the tech is basically relic items, that only great heros can get access to; but more importantly the tech has changed the cultures of the setting.. the aliens who crashed their starship in the swamp are now "the fallen gods beyond the sky", and the designers could have really played up that "cargo cult" kind of impact on Blackmoor's society, religion, politics, economy, etc. etc.

Instead, we have a setting that is very hard to differentiate in any real way from any of the other generic fantasy D&D settings, along with a vague promise that if you're willing to wait six to twelve months, if the company doesn't go under, and if you can afford to spend another $50 for another book, they'll give you stats for a laser rifle that you could have just ripped off of Star Wars.

Do I sound bitter? :\

Maybe its because I couldn't really give a damn about a setting like Eberron.. I was disappointed that Eberron wasn't really what it had promised, but beyond that I had little invested in it. On the other hand Blackmoor was one of my favourite settings from my youth in the old D&D days.. I was waiting with baited breath to find out how they had updated BM into a sophisticated D20 setting that incorporated all of the classic elements I remembered and loved.. only to discover that instead BM has been whitewashed into a vanilla fantasy world... after years of Arneson bitching about BM having been shoved into being a backwater region of Greyhawk or an ancient ruin in Mystara, we finally get to see Blackmoor as an individual, and all we end up with is a setting indistinguishable from Greyhawk or Mystara.

This is monumental level disappointment here. We're talking a betrayal that can only be surpassed by the way Bruce Baugh butchered Gamma World.

So if I am sounding upset, its only because this is one of the settings that I truely cared about.

Nisarg
 


I see your point Nisarg and it is valid. However, as a newcomer I find it to be a good setting that has somthing going for it.

To anyone wondering if DA's blackmoor is worth buying, it depends on what you want. If you are like me, and are looking for a one book self contained typical (but cool) CS that harkens back to the Orange Spine/Red Box days, this is the book for you. If you are in it for specific nostalgia purposes and have a clear idea about Blackmoor like Nisarg here, you might be disappointed.

Aaron.
 

I played in a Blackmoor session at GenCon (Escape from the Temple of the Frog). Didn't get a chance to really delve into the setting, but I liked what I did get to see and experience during play. Some changes to the classes and races, and a very detailed setting. Classic stuff and fun!
 

Although I never got the chance to play the original Blackmoor modules and haven't taken a careful look at the new one, I understand where Nisarg and especially Melan are coming from.

Aside from stroking the ego of one of D&D's creators, what possible purpose does yet another generic fantasy setting serve?

jester47 said:
The wizards vs sorcerers thing going on. That was cool. Sorcerers are outlaws- sweet!
The section explaining how the PrCs from the 3.5 DMG fit into the setting is great!
The use of wood and metal as additional element types- this makes a cool combination of chinese and classical western elements. Very clever.
The focus crystals- this is really neato.
The Elves are unique. But in a fluff way and not a crunch way.
The crunch is so minimal but very powerful! Really crunchy crunch! But not too much.
Lots of info on the people and places, but again, not too much.
Dwarves have steam tech! Cool!
Witch hunts! Inquisitors! Dragon Knights!


Outlawed sorcerers and rivalry with wizards? Iron Kingdoms and to an extent Dragonlance.

Conversion and usage guide for DMG PrCs? Arcana Unearthed and, I believe, Iron Kingdoms.

Mixing wood and metal with the western elements? Five minutes conversion time with Oriental Adventures.

Fluffily unique elves? Dragonlance, Iron Kingdoms, Eberron, Warcraft d20, some BESM d20 settings... Elves are the most changed race in the system.

Powerful, minimal, flavorful crunch? I'd say that of Eberron and Dragonlance, at least. The Iron Kingdoms has powerful, flavorful crunch, but a lot of it.

Dwarven steam tech? Iron Kingdoms, several generic d20 supplements and some BESM d20 supplements.

Witch hunts! (IK) Inquisitors! (Eberron, IK) Dragon knights! (Dragonlance)

That basically leaves the focus crystals as something unique about Blackmoor as presented. Are they sufficient to carry the setting as something new and different?

Nisarg said:
P.S.: D&D needs 6 new PrCs like it needs another bog-standard fantasy setting. :P

Nah... if even one of those 6 PrCs has a cool ability or represents an underused archtype, it could, conceivably, be useful to incorporate into another setting or homebrew.

Another "bog-standard" fantasy setting has no conceivable value. ;)
 

Well, I wasn't going to post in this thread again, but I guess I just gotta address some points, otherwise people will think I am ducking them.

3 years ago, I sat down at a table with Dave Arneson after a gaming session and told him that he really needed to get Blackmoor out to the public again. He told me that he had already been working on it, but could use a hand. Zeitgeist Games, was born. On the day we signed the paperwork, He had mentioned how editing had gone on the last TSR projects he had worked on and that they had thouroughly distorted Blackmoor to his dislike. I promised Dave that any release that had his name on it would have to be personally approved by him before it would be published.

I spent days and days listening to the old stories of Blackmoor. Hearing about the Comeback Inn, the Egg of Coot and other interested tales from the impetus of D&D and the role playing industry. I took copious notes. I learned alot.

From there we began to work on the project. At every step of the way, we worked with a two fold mission. First, Rejuvinate Blackmoor in a form that would be accessible for both old and new players. Second, Correct and complete the world as best as was possible in 240 pages.

We released just that book at GenCon. The book has Dave's full endorsement and support. He was active in writing a healthy portion of the work. Blackmoor is back, better than ever.

To specifically address a couple of points made so far in this thread.

1. "There's Limited Access to high tech/laser swords." - Those of you who already own the book will have seen the timeline of Blackmoor's history. Some of you who have done research will recognize that the timeline puts Blackmoor about 30 years before the module DA1: Adventures in Blackmoor. This is the starting point of the campaign. Nostalgic players who are familiar with things like the Temple of the Frog and the City of the Gods will have to understand that those events have not occurred yet. Most of the events in DA1-4 will be occurring, but they will probably be a bit different.

2. Some have said "Blackmoor is whitewashed and won't be able to compete with settings like Eberron, etc." - Those of you who have read the book will notice that there is plenty that sets Blackmoor apart from other settings. Different Magic rules, Cool enemies, lots of diversity. Everything you could want from the setting that gave birth to those other setting mentioned earlier is around.

3. "This is just a plot to sell more books!" - Hmmm. I won't apologize for selling products. Zeitgeist Games is a game company after all. I think the book is a value compared to many other settings. $34.99 for 240 pages, hardback. Look around and find other books. That being said, the steam and tech rules are slated to be published in the middle of next year as a 128 page supplement. We just couldn't do it justice in the pages we had. If that's not a good enough explanation,sorry. Decisions have to be made and I made that one myself after a long talk with Dave. The 6 PrCs are actually verrrry relevant to the world as it unfolds and they needed to be in the core book per our determination.

4 "The new Blackmoor doesn't have..." - I knew this would be tough for some people to take, but you have to understand things from a perspective of the marketplace. Blackmoor is not a fantasy hearbreak. It's not D&D done right, it's just Blackmoor. A solid campaign that is over 34 years old and continuing on to this day. Most of the people who will buy the core book will not know anything about Blackmoor. Those who did know about it and buy it will enjoy it. Either way, you can't cram 34 years into 240 pages. Thats 7 measly page for each year. Its just not possible.

As a side note, Blackmoor also does not have the Nazis or Confederacy either. Dave told me that they used to adventure all through history and time when they played "back in the day". I hope you guys are not disappointed about that part too. :)

The reason its called Dave Arneson's Blackmoor is not because its a vanity setting, in fact, it's contractual. This setting represents alot of work and while not perfect, we hope that enough people will take the time to give us a look and a fair shake. I just saw the preview of the d20 Filtered. It points out our errors nicely, but gives us a pretty good score, imo.

Do me a favor folks, read the book, then decide if you want to buy it. The people who posted after actually have read through it had generally good comments. We have wide distribution, it should be in your FLGS. It's not shrinkwrapped. Take a gander, thats all I ask.

I will look to hold a chat session in the next 2 weeks. I will post online so you guys can come by.


Dustin
 

NO NAZIS??? YOU LEFT OUT THE NAZIS??? YOU FIEND!

:p

No, just kidding, Dustin. Thanks for posting your clarifications, though. I keep reading this thread to get the insights from the (seeming few) posters here who have read the setting and are willing to share their impressions. I am definitely interested in the book- honestly, I would have picked it up at GenCon, except that I do regret my Eberron purchase somewhat, and would rather proceed more cautiously. But, hearing lots of 'feedback' from folks who ALSO have not read DA's Blackmoor is not particularly useful... :\ so I totally agree about checking it out directly!
 

MoogleEmpMog,

Yeah, but to do all that without the blackmoor setting... you need 3 books: IK, Eberron, and OA. Not to mention that gathering from a bunch of different books is annoying at times.

Aaron.
 

Dustin,

Thanks for the clarifications! I look forward to seeing more. For now, most of us can supplement with many of the steam tech and future rules out there until the tech book comes out. I would also make a request that you take a look at IK and d20 Future, Modern and Grim Tales to get an idea of how you guys can do the tech better.

Aaron.
 

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