d20 Critical Hit Chart -- needs playtesting! What do you think?

[TheLe]

I need some playtesting on my Critical Hit Chart. I need to know what works and what does not. I need to know what you like and what you do not. I also need to know if you are commenting as a PC or a GM. I have attached 1d20 and 1d100 versions of the chart (I would also like to know which you prefer).

Anyone mine testing this in your next games?

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1d100 Critical Hit Chart (ALPHA100)
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01-50 -WDCD (Weapon Default Critical Damage)
51-60 -WDCD + Weapon Max Damage
61-70 -WDCD + Knockback (1 free attack)
71-75 -WDCD + Bleeding 1d4 damage per round
76-80 -WDCD + Bleeding 2d4 damage per round
86-90 -wDCD + Blind 1 round
91 -WDCD + Blind 1d4 round
92 -WDCD + Blind (until end of combat)
93 -WDCD + Stunned/Paralyzed 1 round
94 -WDCD + Stunned/Paralyzed 1d4 round
95 -WDCD + enemy Drops Weapon OR shield
96 -WDCD + enemy weapon OR shieldshatters
97 -WDCD + Instant kill (enemy gets +5 Fortitude Save)
98 -WDCD + Instant kill (enemy gets +2 Fortitude Save)
99 -WDCD + Instant kill (enemy gets Fortitude Save)
100 -Instant Kill (no save)

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1d20 Critical Hit chart (ALPHA20)
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1 -Weapon Max Damage
2 -Weapon Max Damage
3 -WDCD (Weapon Default Critical Damage)
4 -WDCD (Weapon Default Critical Damage)
5 -WDCD (Weapon Default Critical Damage)
6 -WDCD (Weapon Default Critical Damage)
7 -WDCD (Weapon Default Critical Damage)
8 -WDCD + Weapon Max Damage
9 -WDCD + Weapon Max Damage
10 -WDCD + KnockBack (1 free attack)
11 -WDCD + KnockBack (1 free attack)
12 -WDCD + Bleeding, 1d4 damage per round
13 -WDCD + Blind 1 round
14 -WDCD + Blind 1d4 rounds
15 -WDCD + Stunned/Paralyzed 1 round
16 -WDCD + Stunned/Paralyzed 1d4 round
17 -WDCD + enemy Drops Weapon OR shield
18 -WDCD + enemy weapon OR shield shatters
19 -WDCD + Instant kill (enemy gets +5 Fortitude Save)
20 -WDCD + Instant Kill (enemy gets a Fortitude Save)

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Descriptions
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-Knockback. The attack has caused the enemy to be knocked backed a step, leaving it open for one immediate free attack by the same player player. Being offguard, the enemy loses positive Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) during this free attack. (option: If knockback was caused by a ranged attack, allow this free attack to be taken only by the closest melee player not currently in combat with another creature)

-Bleeding. Your attack has hit a critical area on the enemy, causing excessive bleeding (externally or internally). This bleeding may be the enemy's blood, magical energy, other components. As such, bleeding causes damage at the end of each round. If the bleeding is external (often caused by slashing weapons), the enemy may spend one round to patch and stop the bleeding. A healing potion/spell/etc of any kind will immediatly stop any bleeding.

-Blind. Your attack has hit the eyes/attenna/sight of the enemy and thus everything has full concealment to it. Blind victims have a 50% chance to miss in combat, loses positive Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), and grants a +2 bonus on attack rolls to foes that attack it, just as if all it's foes were invisible. It moves at half speed and suffers a -4 penalty on most Strength and Dexterity-based skills. It cannot make Spot skill checks or perform any other activity (such as reading) that requires vision.

-Stunned/Paralyzed. Your attack was so powerful and well placed that the enemy is momentarily stunned and cannot take any action. It loses it's Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and can take no actions. Foes gain a +2 bonus to hit stunned characters.

-Weapon/Shield Drop. Your attack has caused the enemy to drop it's weapon or shield. To retrieve it, the enemy must spend 1 round to pick it up off of the ground. Enemies with attached or no weapons/shields are uneffected, and simply take the Weapon Default Critical Damage.

-Weapon/Shield Shatter. Your attack was very powerful and has hit a weak spot of the enemy's weapon or shield, causing it to shatter and become useless. For enemies with attached weapons, this may cause a limb to get severed (for example, a claw to get severed or may shatter). Enemies with no weapons/shields are uneffected, and simply take the Weapon Default Critical Damage.

-Instant Kill. Your attack has hit a vital spot of the enemy, forcing it to take a Fortitude save or die. Whether the save succeeds or not, the enemy still takes the Weapon Default Critical Damage.

(Note, these charts assume you are using the "Critical Threat" method of determining critical hits)

Thanks.
~Le
junk_of_the@hotmail.com

 

[TheLe]

...?

ummm... should I have posted this in the D&D board?

 

[SurfMonkey01]

I like the look of the d20 one... I haven't had a game in weeks, though, so I can't actually test it at this time... doesn't look too bad, though.

 

[TheLe]

Re: ...?

ummm... should I have posted this in the D&D board?

Thanks. My first playtest group said it works, but they were new to d20 rules (they play mostly FinalFantasyRpg). I am very concerned with the "Instant Kill" rolls, even with the fortitude saves. They might be too powerful.

I made these charts because of some fundamental problems I found with alot of other charts. The problem with most critical hit charts is that they either work only with humanoid creatures (ie "55=hit the arm"), or they are just too big and complex.

I hope the Alpha Charts above help solve both problems. The Alpha100 chart has 16 possible "different" outcomes, while the Alpha20 has 13. Nice and simple.

The possible outcomes are also easily used with any type of creature. Blind/Knockback/bleeding/etc are concepts that can be applied to any humanoid or non-humanoid creature (Dragons, Undead, Squids, Harry Krishnas, etc).

The probability is also stacked towards simple extra damage. The Alpha100 chart allows a 60% chance of only doing extra damage, while the alpha20 chart allows a 45% chance. In any given campaign, combat can easily generate several critical threat/hits, especially with the improved critical feat. This type of chart insures that when a player gets a critical, the chance of doing only extra damage is high.

Well, I hope others will get a chance to playtest and voice their opinions. Here are some alternates I may decide to use instead:

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Alternate changes
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-Apply a -1 to chart rolls if the player did not roll a natural "20" for a critical threat. This reduces their chance of getting an instant kill roll (and gives them no chance for a no-save instant kill on the Alpha100 chart). Apply a -2 if you want to really screw em.

-Apply a +5 fortitude save for all instant kill chart listings. This makes instant kills far more difficult, and eliminates the no-save kill altogether.

-Change the dice of the Bleeding damage from d4 to d8 (or any die you want). You may wish to do this for higher level characters.


Thanks!
~LE

 

[bwgwl]

one comment: your players may say they like the idea of this critical hit system now, but i'll bet they'll be complaining the first time some low-level NPC or critter instakills one of their characters.

the major reason why i don't use any kind of additional critical hit system in the games i run is because it eventually becomes more lethal to the party than it does to their opposition -- simply because the PCs are there for every single combat in the campaign. eventually, someone is going to lose a PC because of this house rule.

doesn't mean you shouldn't use it though -- but make sure everyone is aware of the consequences! it seems that a lot of players see something like this and are initially positive about it because they are only thinking of their PCs using it against their enemies, without realizing that it will be used against their PCs just as often!

 

[TheLe]

one comment: your players may say they like the idea of this critical hit system now, but i'll bet they'll be complaining the first time some low-level NPC or critter instakills one of their characters.

the major reason why i don't use any kind of additional critical hit system in the games i run is because it eventually becomes more lethal to the party than it does to their opposition -- simply because the PCs are there for every single combat in the campaign. eventually, someone is going to lose a PC because of this house rule.

doesn't mean you shouldn't use it though -- but make sure everyone is aware of the consequences! it seems that a lot of players see something like this and are initially positive about it because they are only thinking of their PCs using it against their enemies, without realizing that it will be used against their PCs just as often!

Exactly why I am on these forums now looking for play testing. If people do not like the idea of the instant-kill, then I will replace it with something else.

~Le

 

[Lord_AO]

The good ol' DMG 3e allready states an instant kill on a roll of double 20 (roll 20 for the hot, roll 20 for the crit) Chance of 1 to 400. I like it, my payers liee it too. No save whatsoever, allways the hance of a rat biting a dragon in its vital parts.

BUT

wit your table added it would allow three cances total for instant death, bringing the score to 3 to 400. Okay, with the fort save for 2 to 400 but there's still the chance. I like your idea of adding a -1 penalty if the character did not score the critt with a natural 20. So IF i'll use your table, I skip the instant death at 19, and replace it with another effect. The result of instant death should IMHO only appeaar with natural 20's for the heroism of the D&D game.

Anyways, I like your table, and plan to use it as soon as I'm back from vacation.


Nacho's

 

[TheLe]

The good ol' DMG 3e allready states an instant kill on a roll of double 20 (roll 20 for the hot, roll 20 for the crit) Chance of 1 to 400. I like it, my payers liee it too. No save whatsoever, allways the hance of a rat biting a dragon in its vital parts.

BUT

wit your table added it would allow three cances total for instant death, bringing the score to 3 to 400. Okay, with the fort save for 2 to 400 but there's still the chance. I like your idea of adding a -1 penalty if the character did not score the critt with a natural 20. So IF i'll use your table, I skip the instant death at 19, and replace it with another effect. The result of instant death should IMHO only appeaar with natural 20's for the heroism of the D&D game.
Anyways, I like your table, and plan to use it as soon as I'm back from vacation.
Nacho's

1/400 (ie .25%).

That's not quite correct; in the DM guide, you need to roll 3 times. According to the DMG, you actually need to roll 2 natural 20's for an instant kill THREAT (1/400), then succeed on an additional "to hit" roll for an instant kill.

1) Roll to hit. If hit, then you do normal damage. If it is a Critical THREAT (based on weapon), then roll again.
2) Roll to hit. If it is a hit, then it is a Critical hit, and you do the Weapon Default Critical Damage.
3) If rolls (1) and (2) were both Natural 20's, it is a Instant Kill THREAT. Roll Again to hit. (If it succeeds, it is an instant kill. If it fails, it is just a critical hit).

Assuming a player needs to roll a natural '16' to-hit, the probability of rolling '20', '20', and '16' is:

1/20 x 1/20 x 5/20 = 5/8000 (.0625%)

In my chart, the chances are actually better than that, but not by very much. Let's assume the player needs to roll a 20 for a critical, 16 to hit, then 19 or 20 (on the Alpha20 chart) for an instant kill. Here is the probability:
1/20 x 5/20 x 2/20 = 10/8,000 (.125%)

Still pretty low. AND it allows a Fortitude Save. That's assuming the Alpha20 chart is used.

Using the Alpha100 chart has far far far lower probability, even though you can get an instant kill on a 97-100. Let's assume the player needs to roll a 20 for a critical, 16 to hit, then 97-100 on the chart for an instant kill.
1/20 x 5/20 x 4/100 = 20/40,000 (.05%)

That's lower than the DMG suggested method, and you will usually get some kind of fortitude save.

The chance of a NO-SAVE instant kill on the Alpha100 chart is even lower!
1/20 x 5/20 x 1/20 = 5/40,000 or .0125%.

And this is all assuming the player/monster needs to roll a natural '16' to hit. So a low-level NPC should have a much harder time to kill one of your higher level PCs.

I really thought out these whole instant-kill rolls. But real world testing is what really counts. I appreciate every bit of constructive criticism.

I wanted a chart that was intuitive, easy to use, balanced, and most of all: FUN.

Thanks!

Lord_AO, I hope you do get a chance to test out my table(s) when you come back from vacation. I am anxious to see what your results are.

~Le

 

[MythandLore]

Re: ...?

ummm... should I have posted this in the D&D board?

thele,

This may (or may not) have done better in the 'House Rules' Forum.
http://test.cyberstreet.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=45
You can still repost it there with a link to this thread.
House rules is more about this kind of thing, 'd20 System Games' is more about 'non-dnd brand' games like starwars or spycraft.
I think for the most part this forum gets less traffic then 'House Rules' so if you put it in there you may get more feedback on what you are doing, because what you made is more for 'any d20-game' not a specific 'non-dnd-d20-game'..

 

[TheLe]

thanks

I have moved my question to the HOUSE RULES board.

Thanks for the info.

`LE