d20 Hatred near you?

[kengar]

Speaking as someone who played d20 for a couple years then left it, I will say that I know several people like myself who don't "hate" d20, but find it's not the system for them. My primary beef with d20 as a part of the gaming community is that I run into too many people who are unwilling to play anything other than d20, because they don't want to learn another game system.

The fact is, d20 is perfectly playable, it's just that there are many other systems out there that are better IMO. It's a question of popularity being confused with quality. I call it the "Seattle Syndrome."

Microsoft makes mediocre products that nearly everyone uses because they were successfully marketed to the point of marginalizing the competetion, even if their software is better written than MS's.

Starbuck's make mediocre coffee that nearly everyone drinks because they've put shops up every 10' to the point that other coffee companies with better quality beans and roasts.

WotC sells a mediocre game system which, through branding and marketing, has become the dominant system in the industry to the point that other systems are pushed to the fringe.

In all the above cases, the product isn't broken or flawed. It works, but what accounts for its success is marketing, not quality.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

And man do I hate iced tea! Tea in general, but especially iced! At least I can enjoy the scent and steam of hot tea! Urgh! I hate iced tea! I need to find those messageboards. If not, I'll be forced to post my rant against the foul drink on Enworld.

Put more sugar in it.

 

[diaglo]

Put more sugar in it.

no the line is: Pour some sugar on me...

 

[Calico_Jack73]

WotC sells a mediocre game system which, through branding and marketing, has become the dominant system in the industry to the point that other systems are pushed to the fringe.

Actually I see WotC like the Nintendo NES and the othe systems like the Sega Master System. Nintendo was an inferior product but they let ANYONE make games for it even if those games were crap pushed out just to stock up the shelves. Sega had a better system but wouldn't let anyone else make games for them. By the time Sega learned from their mistake and started allowing other companies to make games for their system Nintendo already owned the market. Of course Sony and Microsoft learned too so that when they came on the scene they let other companies make games for their systems. In the end you have two sides. The OGL for d20 allows more product to be made but you have to sift through it because there is a lot of crap floating around (just like the NES). The independent non-OGL, non-d20 publishers often have a better product for their system but meanwhile they are sliding further and further behind WotC. Hopefully they'll learn. There are so many good systems out there that would really take off more if the SYSTEM were made OGL. As an example I love the White Wolf system and if it were made OGL I can't even imagine all the new settings that could be written for it.

 

[Psion]

I'm sure if I hung out with the other half of the white wolf gang I would hear it, but in the circles I run in (including players that were formerly part of both the local d20 and WW circles), I don't really hear it that much.

There was one player that we played with for a while that would not play D&D, but had no problem playing d20 SW or d20 Everquest. Heck, I think he was more of a prestige class loon than any of my regular players.

But at least, unlike many d20 bashers I hear on the net, he has the clarity to distinguish D&D for d20 and doesn't operate on the illusion that all d20 is just D&D stuffed into X setting.

One of my old players who was a CoC fan did repeat "he had heard" that d20 CoC was basically a high power munchkin version of CoC. I had the pleasure of informing him otherwise.

I find the CoC fanatics to be the most easy to disect and fanatical subset of d20 bashers. I mean really, most rants I hear from them are really rants about things that are true of D&D (to some extent) but aren't true at all about d20 CoC. For example, they complain about the survivability of characters in d20 CoC when a simple analysis shows it is much worse for starting characters in d20 CoC than in BRP CoC. If they really had a point, they would peg of the REAL problem with d20 CoC. To wit, chargen, an area in which BRP clearly holds the upper hand AFAIAC (too bad d20 CoC OWNZ BRP when it comes to skill resolution.)

 

[Sketchpad]

Personally, I like d20 ... but I'm also a fan of other systems I think some of the hatred for d20 stems from vX.X ... I know it ticked me off. Understandable that Star Wars needed some rule tweaking ... but coming out with a "Revised" book a year after the original d20 book?! Come on ...

 

[Calico_Jack73]

I'm sure if I hung out with the other half of the white wolf gang I would hear it, but in the circles I run in (including players that were formerly part of both the local d20 and WW circles), I don't really hear it that much.

Let me clarify... I like the system. I got kind of burned out on the settings (Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage). I've been considering using a modified Humanity scale for the Midnight campaign setting to reflect Despair. Basically, when you've lost all hope you hang up your sword and give up. Witnessing and participating in horrible defeats has the possibility of lowering your hope while making progress against the shadow and seeing a change for the better increases your hope. I really think it'll work... just got to get around to estabishing a Heirarchy of Despair. There is more to it and I've already written it up at the against the shadow website so I won't repeat it here (unless a lot of people really beg and plead).

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Personally, I like d20 ... but I'm also a fan of other systems I think some of the hatred for d20 stems from vX.X ... I know it ticked me off. Understandable that Star Wars needed some rule tweaking ... but coming out with a "Revised" book a year after the original d20 book?! Come on ...

That is why I refuse to buy the Revised book. The original just wasn't that broken in my opinion. Watch, when the last movie comes out they'll put out a new edition to coincide with it.

 

[Flyspeck23]

This is the internet. I'm sure there are message boards where you can find hateful posts about iced tea.

Not really. In this thread AT-ST Driver complains about iced tea, but that's it.

The hate of iced tea is mainly expressed in Blogs, but that was to be expected.

Anyway, there seem to be far less iced tea hatters out there than d02 hatters...

 

[Cerubus Dark]

My hate of d02 know no limit.

Read this thread, but make sure you aren't drinking anything while you do.

lol, stop it my sides can't take anymore laughing!




All your d20's are belong to us.