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D20 Modern in 2007?
- Thread starter Kheti sa-Menik
- Start date
C. Baize
First Post
I would say that after they hit Supers... they're pretty much done. This isn't "sky is falling" or anything, but what else is there?
They've done core modern.
Modern FX.
Far future.
Near future.
Post-Apocalyptic future.
Past (though if they wanted to do a couple focusing on specific past genres, that'd rock).
Backdrops (heh).
They've given their take on mutation based powers.
How to gadgetize creations.
They've given the basics on anthropormorphizing animals (Moreaus), and again, I'd love to see a full supplement just on this, but they've given us the base mechanics, you just have to reverse engineer, and put your own spin on what bonuses and disadvantages to give.
Other than a new mechanic for fully fledged super-powers ala Marvel and DC characters, what have they missed?
I mean, honestly, WotC releases a core set of mechanics to fairly broadly cover a genre, and 3rd party publishers grab the ball and run with it.
OGL is a beautiful thing.
Although, I figure the super-power mechanics won't be OGC, really.
But, we've already got the best base mechanics for super-powers in D20 Modern already.
Blood and Vigilance.
Really, WotC would be wise to use that set of mechanics for their Supers foray.
But maybe I've missed a genre... Is there any genre they haven't at least broadly hit?
They've done core modern.
Modern FX.
Far future.
Near future.
Post-Apocalyptic future.
Past (though if they wanted to do a couple focusing on specific past genres, that'd rock).
Backdrops (heh).
They've given their take on mutation based powers.
How to gadgetize creations.
They've given the basics on anthropormorphizing animals (Moreaus), and again, I'd love to see a full supplement just on this, but they've given us the base mechanics, you just have to reverse engineer, and put your own spin on what bonuses and disadvantages to give.
Other than a new mechanic for fully fledged super-powers ala Marvel and DC characters, what have they missed?
I mean, honestly, WotC releases a core set of mechanics to fairly broadly cover a genre, and 3rd party publishers grab the ball and run with it.
OGL is a beautiful thing.
Although, I figure the super-power mechanics won't be OGC, really.
But, we've already got the best base mechanics for super-powers in D20 Modern already.
Blood and Vigilance.
Really, WotC would be wise to use that set of mechanics for their Supers foray.
But maybe I've missed a genre... Is there any genre they haven't at least broadly hit?
C Baize! You da man...
You're right. They hit across all the basic modern gaming genres, each book as more of a toolkit than a hard core (not hardcore) setting that has so much cannon you can't mess with it.
I think it's done until 4e and we get whever new incarnation of the base game we get. The only thing left is settings, and I just don't think they have a product that can support a whole line of settings in. Modern is...the world we live in. No setting needed. Sure, they could do a future setting (Star Frontiers), but why bother? Do they have enough work in that to justify 3+ books to keep a setting going? I doubt it.
Like I said, if it gets dropped, it gets dropped. There are enough other games now to support it. While the d20 OGL movement was great, I think WotC started losing things when people just gave up on the d20 logo for the ability to put advancement back into their books. Now books are full on RPGs, no WotC titles necessary to play.
My guess is they will not make this mistake in d20 Modern Round 2.
You're right. They hit across all the basic modern gaming genres, each book as more of a toolkit than a hard core (not hardcore) setting that has so much cannon you can't mess with it.
I think it's done until 4e and we get whever new incarnation of the base game we get. The only thing left is settings, and I just don't think they have a product that can support a whole line of settings in. Modern is...the world we live in. No setting needed. Sure, they could do a future setting (Star Frontiers), but why bother? Do they have enough work in that to justify 3+ books to keep a setting going? I doubt it.
Like I said, if it gets dropped, it gets dropped. There are enough other games now to support it. While the d20 OGL movement was great, I think WotC started losing things when people just gave up on the d20 logo for the ability to put advancement back into their books. Now books are full on RPGs, no WotC titles necessary to play.
My guess is they will not make this mistake in d20 Modern Round 2.
buzz
Adventurer
Fantasy. But there's an obvious reason why.C. Baize said:
I think there's plenty of room to do mini-game supplements (Dark*Matter), as opposed to toolkit books (d20F). I think they have yet to release a definitive "core" setting for d20M, i.e., a setting so cool it makes you want to buy the ruleset.*
*Of course, I'm one of those people who didn't think UrA was very good. If you did, you might say that was the definitive setting.
C. Baize
First Post
To continue on with how they've hit the bases on D20 Modern...
Other than full-out comics style supers, what can you not do that is relatively recent past (from the 14th century or so), modern or future based with the WotC books so far released and the slightest modicum of imagination?
All the base mechanics (though maybe not specific racial mechanics for EVERY race in the setting) are there for:
Renaissance era gaming
Old West
Pulp
WWII
'60s era beginning of the Cold War
'80s era and all the cinematic fun that could be
Modern
Top Secret
Dark*Matter
Post-Modern
Cyberpunk
Gamma World
Star Frontiers
Star Wars
And even if you want specific settings... With a tiny bit of creativity, you can do pretty much any past, modern, post-modern, post-apoc, or future setting.
I can't think of a setting in any of those genres that could not be well-played with a combination of WotC books.
That's without adding existing 3rd-Party support in on top of it.
Once you do that... What can't you do?
Other than full-out comics style supers, what can you not do that is relatively recent past (from the 14th century or so), modern or future based with the WotC books so far released and the slightest modicum of imagination?
All the base mechanics (though maybe not specific racial mechanics for EVERY race in the setting) are there for:
Renaissance era gaming
Old West
Pulp
WWII
'60s era beginning of the Cold War
'80s era and all the cinematic fun that could be
Modern
Top Secret
Dark*Matter
Post-Modern
Cyberpunk
Gamma World
Star Frontiers
Star Wars
And even if you want specific settings... With a tiny bit of creativity, you can do pretty much any past, modern, post-modern, post-apoc, or future setting.
I can't think of a setting in any of those genres that could not be well-played with a combination of WotC books.
That's without adding existing 3rd-Party support in on top of it.
Once you do that... What can't you do?
C. Baize
First Post
buzz said:Fantasy. But there's an obvious reason why.
I think there's plenty of room to do mini-game supplements (Dark*Matter), as opposed to toolkit books (d20F). I think they have yet to release a definitive "core" setting for d20M, i.e., a setting so cool it makes you want to buy the ruleset.*
*Of course, I'm one of those people who didn't think UrA was very good. If you did, you might say that was the definitive setting.
I dunno... they hit modern fantasy with Urban Arcana.
But for classical fantasy... well... While I'd agree that D20 Modern's ruleset is superior to base D20, I'm really considering genre that are what should be considered D20 Modern.
And yeah... there's plenty of room to release a lot more supplements.
But... and here's where I have to separate my own wants from what makes sense on a business level... does it make more financial sense to make a product likely to profit by (I'm pulling a number out of thin air, I have no statistics to back this up... it's purely conjecture) say, 20% over their cost for a modern product, or 2000% over their cost for a D&D product? Even if the difference is 20% and 22%, it still makes more business sense to support the bigger moneymaker over the one that profits, but not as well.
As much as I might wish the situation were different... they have to go where the parent company tells them to go... and the parent company is a fairly major corporation and their bottom line is the bottom line.
I have a feeling that if WotC were solely run by gamers and didn't have to answer to a stuffy board of stuffed suit directors of a large corporation, Modern would continue to see support as long as it didn't lose too much money because there are a lot of fans that want it.
But, hey... if wishes were fishes, and all.
buzz
Adventurer
True, but remember that profit depends on cost. This is why I could see WotC updating the core book every once in a while, and maybe doing web articles. I.e., I think this would be a small investment that would produce a decent return, keep fans happy, and keep the third-party supplement market alive (thus supporting core book sales).C. Baize said:
The "definitive setting" would be more of a risk, of course. Still, I think it's the key to making d20M more profitable, far more so than producing more toolkit supplements.
