D20 Modern or Spycraft II?

[TheAuldGrump]

The Question is, how well does spycraft handle undead mutant psionic alien mages? My players tried to kill me after they encontered that. D20 Modern is one of the most flexable d20 systems in existance, almost as good as the old Alternity system. Spycraft does a limited thing, (superspy action), and does that well, but D20 Modern can do anything. as a plus, it is cross compatable with almost any other book put out by wizards. I can cross over anything without much effort. I needed Garydi shadow magic for an adveture, so I grabed my Tome of Magic, and pulled some stuff strait out of that.

No, Spycraft handles action. Superspy is one type, but it handles a lot more than that. Indiana Jones is just as easy to stat up as James Bond. There are rules online for Spycraft Star Wars. There is at least one Firefly game out there using Spycraft. One of the core settings for Spycraft 1st ed. included psionics and magic.

On the other hand, D20 Modern can handle anything - And make it boring! Superspy nonaction! Magic wielding fantasy nonaction! Superhero nonaction! Undead mutant psionic alien mage nonaction! The possibilities are beginingless! Sorry, but I would rather use Spycraft and actually enjoy my game.

As for magic - I am working on converting E.N. Publishing's Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth to Spycraft, and not finding it all that hard.

The Auld Grump

 

[Psion]

The Question is, how well does spycraft handle undead mutant psionic alien mages? My players tried to kill me after they encontered that. D20 Modern is one of the most flexable d20 systems in existance, almost as good as the old Alternity system. Spycraft does a limited thing, (superspy action),

Again, no it really does more than that.

If we were talking about SC 1.0, I'd be nodding my head in agreement.

But SC 2.0 is really much more flexible. SC 1.0 was my default engine for Superspy action. SC 2.0 is now my default system for all modern action.

and does that well, but D20 Modern can do anything. as a plus, it is cross compatable with almost any other book put out by wizards. I can cross over anything without much effort. I needed Garydi shadow magic for an adveture, so I grabed my Tome of Magic, and pulled some stuff strait out of that.

This, I'll grant you. As I said upthread, what D20 modern has is support. I think, especially, third party publishers make the game what it is. Run me some Blood & Fists or Second World, I'll be at the table.

(That said, don't totally count Spycraft out here. Using the Dark Conspiracy plugin... which is available for free... SC will plug in to any typical d20 magic system stuff.)

 

[Kanegrundar]

No, Spycraft handles action. Superspy is one type, but it handles a lot more than that. Indiana Jones is just as easy to stat up as James Bond. There are rules online for Spycraft Star Wars. There is at least one Firefly game out there using Spycraft. One of the core settings for Spycraft 1st ed. included psionics and magic.

On the other hand, D20 Modern can handle anything - And make it boring! Superspy nonaction! Magic wielding fantasy nonaction! Superhero nonaction! Undead mutant psionic alien mage nonaction! The possibilities are beginingless! Sorry, but I would rather use Spycraft and actually enjoy my game.

As for magic - I am working on converting E.N. Publishing's Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth to Spycraft, and not finding it all that hard.

The Auld Grump

I've been using D20 Modern since it first came out and I've never had a boring game. I guess it's just a matter of personal taste. :shrug:

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I've been using D20 Modern since it first came out and I've never had a boring game. I guess it's just a matter of personal taste. :shrug:

Sorry, more of a reactionto Deekin's post than an actual attack on D20 Modern. He was making broad, sweeping, inaccurate statements and I felt the need to do the same with added hyperbole.

I actually liked the sound of D20 Modern more while it was in development than what actually appeared. (Some of the same things that are in Spycraft actually - Vitality Points and wounds, and armor that gives damage resistance rather than making it harder to be hit, etc. were supposed to be in D20 Modern early on, then WotC changed their minds.)

While not my cup of tea Modern is not a bad game, and it is very adaptable. But I like the feel of SC2 better, chases, combat, and even hacking all seem more enjoyable. Though admitedly the one game of D20 Modern I ever played in was dull as dishwater, this was the fault of a DM who had no idea of how to get the players going in the direction that he wanted the game to head. The only thing about D20 Modern that I hate was the gods awful D20 Past supplement (the whole reason I bought D20 Modern in the first place.)

The Auld Grump

But yes, it is a matter of personal taste.

 

[Armistice]

<snip>
This, I'll grant you. As I said upthread, what D20 modern has is support. I think, especially, third party publishers make the game what it is. Run me some Blood & Fists or Second World, I'll be at the table.

(That said, don't totally count Spycraft out here. Using the Dark Conspiracy plugin... which is available for free... SC will plug in to any typical d20 magic system stuff.)

Psion, I think you meant Dark Inheritance

You can find the Dark Inheritance magic and etc. conversion at the old AEG boards Here. If you take a look through the rest of that thread you can find a total Psi conversion as well. The fluff is all hardcopy form though (soon to be available as .pdf's I understand). As an added bonus, the Grammaton Cleric from Equilibrium is at the end of that thread. He makes a fantastic baddy!

Truth be told, the most useful d20 Modern item I own is the Menace manual as great inspiration. I actually get more use out of it now than before because of the speed at which I can convert things I like using the new 2.0 npc rules.

I think we can all agree that, system preference aside, d20 Modern easily wins the support argument with its oodles of 3rd party offerings of varying quality. What are some of the absolute best, I mean completely top of the line, heads and shoulders above the rest, d20 Modern supplements. Remember you've got to think they were 4.5 or 5 stars. If I'm going to buy 'em to convert I want the cream.

I've already mentioned Blood & Fists, what are the others?

 

[Kanegrundar]

Sorry, more of a reactionto Deekin's post than an actual attack on D20 Modern. He was making broad, sweeping, inaccurate statements and I felt the need to do the same with added hyperbole.

I actually liked the sound of D20 Modern more while it was in development than what actually appeared. (Some of the same things that are in Spycraft actually - Vitality Points and wounds, and armor that gives damage resistance rather than making it harder to be hit, etc. were supposed to be in D20 Modern early on, then WotC changed their minds.)

While not my cup of tea Modern is not a bad game, and it is very adaptable. But I like the feel of SC2 better, chases, combat, and even hacking all seem more enjoyable. Though admitedly the one game of D20 Modern I ever played in was dull as dishwater, this was the fault of a DM who had no idea of how to get the players going in the direction that he wanted the game to head. The only thing about D20 Modern that I hate was the gods awful D20 Past supplement (the whole reason I bought D20 Modern in the first place.)

The Auld Grump

But yes, it is a matter of personal taste.

Heh. No worries.

Vitality and Wound Points and armor as DR are two changes that I made in my (D20 Modern) games.

I do agree that there are things that SC2.0 does better. Chases, autofire rules, the way skills are set up, and scalable NPC's are all done better than D20 Modern. I haven't played D20 Modern since I picked up SC2, but the next time I do I'll be using the chase and autofire rules.

I'm firmly in the camp that likes D20 Modern better. I have a LOT of tools to play any kind of game I want with it. That kind of moldability is great for a kitbashing gamer like me.

I will agree that D20 Past was a bit of a letdown, but I still found a lot of it useful for my games. With a little tweaking of feats and such, the Advanced Classes have become very usable for my Sci-Fantasy setting. I still think a lot of the problem with D20 Past was that it didn't do what people were expecting. What it did contain has been useful to me at least.

 

[Pbartender]

This, I'll grant you. As I said upthread, what D20 modern has is support. I think, especially, third party publishers make the game what it is. Run me some Blood & Fists or Second World, I'll be at the table.

(That said, don't totally count Spycraft out here. Using the Dark Conspiracy plugin... which is available for free... SC will plug in to any typical d20 magic system stuff.)

Coming soon to Spycraft 2.0...

World on Fire - Espionage.
10,000 Bullets - Pulp Noir.
Farthest Star - Science Fiction.
Shatterpunk - Cyberpunk.
Crucible - Monster Hunters.
Spellbound - Magic.
Throw Down - Kung Fu.
Bag Full of Guns - New Gear and Weapons.
Flags - Real World Organizations.

Not to mention the free Master Conversion Document which has converted rules for Psionics, Magic and other goodies.

 

[Psion]

Coming soon to Spycraft 2.0...

World on Fire - Espionage.
10,000 Bullets - Pulp Noir.
Farthest Star - Science Fiction.
Shatterpunk - Cyberpunk.
Crucible - Monster Hunters.
Spellbound - Magic.
Throw Down - Kung Fu.
Bag Full of Guns - New Gear and Weapons.
Flags - Real World Organizations.

Which is wonderful. But I am so jonesin' for things in some of these books, I'm gonna have to say "bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush" for the moment...

 

[Psion]

Psion, I think you meant Dark Inheritance

Yeah. That.

 

[Pbartender]

Which is wonderful. But I am so jonesin' for things in some of these books, I'm gonna have to say "bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush" for the moment...

Oh, I won't argue with that...

For my group, the preference for SC over D20 Modern is a percieved thing... The names and descriptions alone from SC invoke visions of action and excitement. No matter how well the D20M rules do or do not work, my players simply can't get excited over the classes, talents and feats as they are presented... Not when they can instead have abilities and feats like "Too Ugly to Die", "Not in the Face!", "'L337", "Spy vs. Spy", "Bald-faced Lie" and "Wuxia".'

Like somebody else said earlier... it's a matter of style and preference.