Damage Reduction and Sneak Attack...

[Ruvion]

If a creature has enough damage reduction to completely negate damage roll from a rogue, does that said rogue gain sneak attack damage as well? Gut feeling and insight tells me no, but what do you guys think?

 

[Pinotage]

If a creature has enough damage reduction to completely negate damage roll from a rogue, does that said rogue gain sneak attack damage as well? Gut feeling and insight tells me no, but what do you guys think?

If a rogue is in a position to sneak attack, i.e. he's flanking, the opponent is flat-footed, he's invisible etc. then just add the sneak attack damage to the damage for the weapon. Simply subtract the damage reduction from this total damage, including sneak attack damage, to see if the enemy was injured. For example, if a rogue with a short sword is fighting a gargoyle with DR 10/magic, and said rogue is flanking, i.e. capable of performing a sneak attack, and scores a hit, the rogue deals damage for the weapon (1d6+2, for example, gives 5 on average for the weapon) and adds sneak attack damage to that (2d6, for example, for an average of 7 hp). The total damage is 12 hp, enough to overcome the DR of the gargoyle and hence the gargoyle takes 2 hp damage.

Hope that helps.

Pinotage

 

[Rkhet]

SRD, Damage Reduction:

Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk’s stunning, and injury type disease.

So the question is: does sneak attack fall under the category of 'most special effects'?

I'd say yes.

 

[reveal]

SRD, Damage Reduction:

Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk’s stunning, and injury type disease.

So the question is: does sneak attack fall under the category of 'most special effects'?

I'd say yes.

A sneak attack is not a special effect. It's not poison, it's not stunning someone, and it's not disease, by the passage above. It's simply extra damage because you hit a vital spot with a weapon.

Pinotage has it right in his example.

 

[Dingleberry]

SRD, Damage Reduction:

Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk’s stunning, and injury type disease.

So the question is: does sneak attack fall under the category of 'most special effects'?

I'd say yes.

I'd say no. I don't think sneak attack damage is a "special effect," but rather the "damage from an attack" in the first clause.

 

[Stormrunner]

If the extra damage from a critical hit can put a strike "over the hump" for damage reduction (which I believe is the case), then sneak attack should as well. In both cases the extra damage comes from striking a particularly vulnerable/painful/vital spot on the foe (eye, groin, heart, whatever) - the sneak attack is done deliberately, while the critical just "got lucky", but they're similar enough I would treat them the same.

 

[the Jester]

Sneak attack is the way most rogues overcome DR, ime.

I believe that the intent is that sneak attack damage is part of the rogue's regular damage.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

A sneak attack is not a special effect. It's not poison, it's not stunning someone, and it's not disease, by the passage above. It's simply extra damage because you hit a vital spot with a weapon.

Pinotage has it right in his example.

I agree. Sneak Attack damage is precision damage, which has certain in-game consequences, but it is still weapon damage, not a special effect. It counts towards overcoming DR against any critter with DR that isn't immune to crits or uncannily dodgy.

 

[Ruvion]

I agree. Sneak Attack damage is precision damage, which has certain in-game consequences, but it is still weapon damage, not a special effect. It counts towards overcoming DR against any critter with DR that isn't immune to crits or uncannily dodgy.

i am not contesting your claim...but are you sure sneak attack damage is still weapon damage and not 'special damage' like the flaming weapon quality (which bypass damage reduction but may not bypass a high fire resistance)?

the legitimacy of sneak attack as weapon damage came up in our Iron Heroes game where armor provides damage reduction. when the executioner was sneak attacking an NPC with heavy armor, i thought it was weird that the executioner got his SA despite the fact that his dagger failed to penetrate the armor DR. Does that mean, the dagger didn't sank into the NPC's vulnerable area but somehow, almost magically, he managed to deal him a fell blow?

 

[Jhulae]

i am not contesting your claim...but are you sure sneak attack damage is still weapon damage and not 'special damage' like the flaming weapon quality (which bypass damage reduction but may not bypass a high fire resistance)?

the legitimacy of sneak attack as weapon damage came up in our Iron Heroes game where armor provides damage reduction. when the executioner was sneak attacking an NPC with heavy armor, i thought it was weird that the executioner got his SA despite the fact that his dagger failed to penetrate the armor DR. Does that mean, the dagger didn't sank into the NPC's vulnerable area but somehow, almost magically, he managed to deal him a fell blow?

It's extra dice of damage dealt by the weapon the rogue is using. For all intents and purposes, if the rogue is sneak attacking with a rapier and has 3d6 sneak attack, he's making a 4d6 piercing attack that does 5d6 on a critical hit (plus any applicable strength bonuses).

If the armor has, lets say, DR10 and the rogue rolls 14 points of damage, the opponent takes 4 points of damage. The armor still provided a *lot* of protection against the hit. The damage from Sneak Attack is not rolled and applied separately, bypassing the armor or DR.