Damage Scaling

[Dragonblade]

Does anybody know if ability bonuses will play a part in this? What if they increase by 1/2 per level? So, if m.m. does 2d4 plus int mod the dam bonus would increase by 1/2 level (this would simplify BAB/def/skill progression as well)

I originally thought this to be the case, but many have pointed out that high level monsters do not seem to be getting a 1/2 level bonus to damage.

Of course, we have not see a high level character yet and we do know that PCs play by different rules. I imagine there is some mechanic for damage scaling. Given that monster HP seem to grow at higher levels, I imagine that damage must scale in some way as well. Especially for things like at-will powers, otherwise they gradually become irrelevant.

 

[MaelStorm]

As Dragonblade mentioned, if monsters don't add 1/2 level to their damage I assume it'd be normal that player's won't add them too. I think it is important for a game system to be balanced that both PCs and monsters of the same level are on par.

 

[Harshax]

We might see something like this

Heroic tier [W] damage
Paragon tier 2[W] damage
Epic tier 3[W] damage

(or in more generic terms Paragon +1W, Epic +2W)

This is a complete guess though - I've got no idea what they've got planned.

Could someone please explain the nomenclature of x[W]. I've seen it around, but no idea how to interpret it.

Thanks.

 

[Mirtek]

Could someone please explain the nomenclature of x[W]. I've seen it around, but no idea how to interpret it.

Thanks.

[W] = Weapon damage

 

[Moon-Lancer]

[W]=d8 if the weapon is a longsword. (well a 3.5 longsword not sure about 4e)

as others have said, it looks like encounter and daily maneuvers lets you do 2d8 or 3d8 respectively. At least thats what it seems to me.

 

[Gargazon]

As Dragonblade mentioned, if monsters don't add 1/2 level to their damage I assume it'd be normal that player's won't add them too. I think it is important for a game system to be balanced that both PCs and monsters of the same level are on par.

Actually, the monsters and PCs may not be necessarily balanced if such a situation was in place.

I'm going to do some math, but I do realise I am making ALOT of assumptions here about how characters level. The main two assumptions are ability scores go up at the same rate as in 3.5 and SWSE and the Fighter does 2d8 damage with a Longsword in the Paragon tier.

An 18th level Fighter who started at 1st level with 16 strength and increased that at every oppurtunity (so their Str is 20) would have a +19 bonus to damage. We'll also that they have a Longsword and deal 2d8 damage with it because they're in the Paragon tier (complete conjecture on my part). That's 2d8 +19 damage with basic attacks, so an average of 28 damage a round. Without this, the Fighter deals 14 (yes, FOURTEEN) damage with his base attacks during the round.

Also, let's assume he also uses Cleave. Cleave deals Str bonus damage (I'll assume, it seem to be that way with the pregen) aswell, so we'll add that to the cases - +19 for the 18th level Fighter with +1/2 level, +5 for the 18th level Fighter without +1/2 level.

The Bodak Reaver (a level 18 Brute) deals an average of 17 damage with its greataxe attack. The Fighter also suffers 5 damage everytime they try to attack the Reaver, so his average damage is 23.

18th level Fighter (with +1/2 level Str modifier and 2d8 Longsword) - 28 damage per round, +19 to an adjacent target with Cleave.
18th level Brute (with + Str modifier, 1d12 Greataxe and Agonising Gaze) - 23 damage per round
18th level Fighter (with +Str and 2d8 Longsword) - 14 damage per round, +5 to an adjacent target with Cleave.

So, despite the fact my math is essentially meaningless speculation at this time it would appear that the +1/2 level Fighter deals an amount above that of an equal level 18th level monster, while the +straight bonus Fighter sobs as he scrapes away at the Bodak. I'd go with the former as being the actual system.

 

[MaelStorm]

Actually, the monsters and PCs may not be necessarily balanced if such a situation was in place.
<snip>

I am not going to comment on your example as it's pure speculation. Pure balance does not exist in a game, I'll grant you this. There are some variables and this will always be part of D&D. But applying the same rules for damage for both monsters and PCs is just being plain fair IMO, if you want monsters and PCs to be unequal by adding 1/2 level to just your PCs you tilt the balance in favor of the PCs.

 

[Gargazon]

I am not going to comment on your example as it's pure speculation. Pure balance does not exist in a game, I'll grant you this. There are some variables and this will always be part of D&D. But applying the same rules for damage for both monsters and PCs is just being plain fair IMO, if you want monsters and PCs to be unequal by adding 1/2 level to just your PCs you tilt the balance in favor of the PCs.

Unless the system math takes such a bonus into account, in which case it's perfectly fair. Plus, as the system already assumes you want your PCs to get out of an equal-level encounter intact, it's arguably already tilted in the PCs favour from the get-go.

 

[MaelStorm]

Unless the system math takes such a bonus into account, in which case it's perfectly fair. Plus, as the system already assumes you want your PCs to get out of an equal-level encounter intact, it's arguably already tilted in the PCs favour from the get-go.

But why do you want it to be even more tilted in favor of the PCs?

EDIT: Plus PCs have healing surges.

 

[Gargazon]

But why do you want it to be even more tilted in favor of the PCs?

You seem to be misunderstanding the point I am trying to convey.

Monsters may be designed to TAKE INTO ACCOUNT that players have the +1/2 bonus. The monsters do not get such a bonus, as they DO NOT NEED IT to function as legitimate threats to the PCs. Infact, giving such a bonus to the monsters aswell as the PCs may tilt the game greatly in the monster's favour.

I can quite easily see this being the case. You may look at a monster and think 'Hmm, he has rather low damage', but if you look at what his basic attacks do and what special abilities he has, you may see he is far more dangerous that that '1d12 +12 plus 1d8 necrotic' entry may indicate. And the players, who will not have ability scores in mid-20s at level 18 and aren't always built to be balanced for their level (which should be less of a problem in 4E than it was in 3.5, but may still be a problem), may need a boost to their damage, say 1/2 their level, to take these monsters down before they rip them to shreds.

I'm just saying that if the system math takes into account that the PCs have these bonuses and the monsters don't, there is no problem of balance there.