Dare I ask... Stealth?

Trit One-Ear

Explorer
Gearing up to jump back in to my campaign, and I'm trying to take my game to the next level. One of my players, the Gnome Rogue, has always been frustrated with how Stealth is handled. I know there have been many clear and unclear erratas to the rules... can anyone sum up for me the basics of how Stealth now works, especially on combat?

Trit
 

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Gearing up to jump back in to my campaign, and I'm trying to take my game to the next level. One of my players, the Gnome Rogue, has always been frustrated with how Stealth is handled. I know there have been many clear and unclear erratas to the rules... can anyone sum up for me the basics of how Stealth now works, especially on combat?

Trit

Here's how I think about it. First, let's look at what it means to be hidden.

1. There's a condition called "Hidden" which means that you can't be seen or heard. In game terms, you're Invisible *and* enemies don't know what square you're in. Because you're Invisible, you have combat advantage, you don't provoke opportunity attacks, and enemies have a -5 penalty to attack rolls against you.

2. Because monsters don't know what square you're in, they have to guess which square to attack. If they guess the wrong square, they miss. Even if they guess the right square, they have -5 to hit you because you're invisible.

3. Finally, it's possible to be hidden from some monsters but not others.


Now let's look at how you use Stealth to become hidden.

1. Any time you move, whether from a move action or some other ability, you can use Stealth at the end of your movement. If you moved more than 2 squares, your Stealth check has a -5 penalty. If you ran, your Stealth check has a -10 penalty.

2. However, you can only hide from monsters that can't see you. In combat, this means that you have to have superior cover, total concealment, or be out of line of sight. In practice, the easiest way to get this is usually to walk around a corner. (Due to the way line of sight rules work, you usually have to be one square back from the corner.)

3. When you use Stealth, you make a Stealth check opposed by the passive Perception of each creature you're hiding from. If you succeed, you're hidden from that creature. Remember, you can be hidden from some monsters but not others.


Next, what you can do once you're hidden.

1. Once you're hidden, you stay hidden until you attack, make a noise louder than a whisper, or lose cover or concealment. You only need regular cover or concealment to remain hidden (not superior cover or total concealment), but you can't use a creature for cover.

2. You can move while you're hidden, but if you move more than 2 squares, you have to make a new Stealth check (using the same -5 and -10 modifiers as before). You also have to have cover or concealment for all the squares you move through. If you don't, or if you fail the check, you're no longer hidden.

3. When you reveal yourself (by attacking, for example), you retain the benefits of the Hidden condition until your entire action has been resolved. For example, if you have a power that allows you to shift 2 squares and then attack, you still get combat advantage for the attack, even if you shift out of cover.

4. You can't reveal yourself then hide again during the same action. For example, you couldn't use a power to attack, shift 2 squares, and hide. You have to use a new action--for example, attack and shift two squares as a standard action power, then use a move action to hide.


Last, we'll look at how monsters can find you when you're hidden.

1. If the monsters know you're hidden, they can make a Perception check as a minor action on their turn to find you. If the perception check beats your original Stealth roll (the one you used to hide), then you're no longer hidden from that monster.

2. Also, if a monster attempts to enter the square you're hiding in, it automatically finds you.

3. Remember that you can be hidden from some monsters but not others. Even if one monster finds you, you're still hidden from the others.


Hope this helps!
 
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So, in theory...

Would it be possible for a Shade to be hidden at all times by using his party members for concealment? (Shades break part of #4)

It also seems theoretically possible for certain Warlocks to spend a vast majority of their time being effectively invisible.
 

So, in theory...

Would it be possible for a Shade to be hidden at all times by using his party members for concealment? (Shades break part of #4)

Absolutely (though it's cover, not concealment, that allies provide). In fact, this is explicitly provided for in the Shade racial power.

However:


  • The Shade is not hidden from anyone who can see around the Shade's cover (e.g., a Shade who hides behind his allies is not hidden from a goblin who runs past his allies such that they are no longer in the way).
  • The Shade only remains hidden as long as he's willing to spend his standard action each round maintaining his racial power. This makes it far less appealing during combat.
It also seems theoretically possible for certain Warlocks to spend a vast majority of their time being effectively invisible.
This is also possible, though you'd have to describe exactly what you're using to achieve this in order for us to outline any potential snags. If you're talking about using Shadow Walk to gain concealment and then use that plus One With Shadow to hide, then yes, that pretty much just works if you keep moving. Shade Warlocks are pretty sneaky. Note that attacking still breaks Stealth, however. Make sure you attack, then move.
 
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One more important rule: you cannot hide during an action in which you became unhidden.

ie - if you have a power that lets you attack then move, and you start out hidden, you cannot attack and then hide using the move portion of the power. You must hide during a different action.
 

One more important rule: you cannot hide during an action in which you became unhidden.

ie - if you have a power that lets you attack then move, and you start out hidden, you cannot attack and then hide using the move portion of the power. You must hide during a different action.
Where is this printed?
 


Absolutely (though it's cover, not concealment, that allies provide). In fact, this is explicitly provided for in the Shade racial power.

I'm pretty sure it's been clarified that you can't use allies for Stealth cover, although the shade racial power is an exception to this general rule.
 

I'm pretty sure it's been clarified that you can't use allies for Stealth cover, although the shade racial power is an exception to this general rule.

It's certainly true that Shades can use cover granted by their allies to hide. I also vaguely recall the ruling that you're talking about, though I can't seem to find where it might be located.
 

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