Daring Outlaw and Daring Warrior help

[roushguy]

In a friend's campaign, I have a third level swashbuckler and I have just gained a level. I am wondering if I should simply continue with swashbuckler, or jump into fighter or rogue and get the equivalent Daring feat. I then plan on retraining the class back into swashbuckler levels, in the hopes it'll stack, and I'll be a 20th level swashbuckler sneak attacking as a 20th level rogue, with Weapon Specialization and GWF, so on and so forth. My basic question is thus: If I have Daring Outlaw, could I retrain all of my rogue levels into swashbuckler levels and still have sneak attack dice? Or not? Same thing for the fighter levels. Please help, I'm fairly sure I'm right, but my friends think I'm crazy. The DM asked me to find some help online, because he isn't sure either way.

 

[Runestar]

Without said feats, there is no reason to ever take more than 3 lvs in swashbuckler.

With daring outlaw, you will want 3-4 lvs of rogue, then go swashbuckler all the way.

I then plan on retraining the class back into swashbuckler levels, in the hopes it'll stack, and I'll be a 20th level swashbuckler sneak attacking as a 20th level rogue, with Weapon Specialization and GWF, so on and so forth.

Seems quite cheap, using rogue to qualify, then swapping it out while relying on the SA dice to continue qualifying. Plus, I am sure you need at least 1 lv of rogue, since you add both together, and I think no rogue lvs counts as "-" rather than "0".

At least, I for one would never allow it. I would insist that you be able to qualify for daring outlaw without the feat's benefits. Why should a feat help qualify for itself?

Else, you may as well take 1 lv in swordsage and assassin's stance to qualify.

 

[udalrich]

I'm fairly certain that at some point in retraining the rogue levels to swashbuckler, you will no longer qualify for Daring Outlaw. At that point, you lose the benefit of the feat. (Or possibly the retraining rules will not let you retrain that level without fire retraining the feat). Even if it does work, no sane GM would allow it. For the cost of a feat (and whatever retraining costs), you would get 10d6 of sneak attack. That is worth way more than the cost. I would guess that it's worth about 10 feats.

 

[krupintupple]

i'd think it'd be akin to this line regarding feats, from the d20srd:

"A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite." so it would follow that if you lost a prerequisite for something else, you'd also lose out on it as well.

 

[roushguy]

But see, that's the thing. Because rogue and swashbuckler stack, I get sneak attack based off of swashbuckler too. But yeah, I can see how cheesetastic it could be. But, if I take Daring Outlaw, I won't have a full BaB, something I really want to have. Is there another base class with sneak attack and a full BaB? By base, I mean non-prestige.

 

[Theroc]

But see, that's the thing. Because rogue and swashbuckler stack, I get sneak attack based off of swashbuckler too. But yeah, I can see how cheesetastic it could be. But, if I take Daring Outlaw, I won't have a full BaB, something I really want to have. Is there another base class with sneak attack and a full BaB? By base, I mean non-prestige.

Doubtful.

 

[Nifft]

But see, that's the thing. Because rogue and swashbuckler stack, I get sneak attack based off of swashbuckler too. But yeah, I can see how cheesetastic it could be. But, if I take Daring Outlaw, I won't have a full BaB, something I really want to have. Is there another base class with sneak attack and a full BaB? By base, I mean non-prestige.

Nope.

But c'mon, you're not willing to suck down one point of lost BAB for full Sneak Attack progression? That's just absurdly greedy... about something largely irrelevant.

 

[SPECTRE666]

Alrighty then!!

 

[Walking Dad]

But see, that's the thing. Because rogue and swashbuckler stack, I get sneak attack based off of swashbuckler too. But yeah, I can see how cheesetastic it could be. But, if I take Daring Outlaw, I won't have a full BaB, something I really want to have. Is there another base class with sneak attack and a full BaB? By base, I mean non-prestige.

Here, the Fighter variant from Unearthed Arcana. Sacrifices his feats to get sneak attack.

Fighter

 

[Forged Fury]

Here, the Fighter variant from Unearthed Arcana. Sacrifices his feats to get sneak attack.

Fighter

Do note though that the Fighter Variant, while allowing you to pick up Daring Warrior, will not factor into the Daring Outlaw mechanics since it specifies stacking Swashbuckler and Rogue levels.

If you are willing to forgo the bonus feats and skills, you can have a full BAB/full sneak attack character. To me, however, the character seems pretty one-dimensional and will likely have difficulty using his class features to their fullest due to the lack of skills/ranks in mobility skills.