Dark elves and Drow in the 4th ed Forgotten realms

[hamishspence]

There's a long argument over on gleemax about original drow being dark haired, brown skinned dark elves.

Since I never joined gleemax, I was wondering what people over here have to say on the subject.

we know the at some wood elves were transformed into drow as well as the Illithyri.
We are told the Illithyri were altered at least partly by crossbreeding with demons, (Evermeet suggested that crossbreeding with Lolth herself was involved.

However, it is clear that, in Evermeet at least, SOME dark elves must have been white haired pre-Tainting. Because, waay back when the first moon and sun elves met them, Kar-Narlist and his people were already described as dark skinned and white haired. And this is before Lolth started getting involved.

Has this been retconned? Or are they keeping the notion of white-haired, red eyed elves that existed long before any tainting (and didn't have problems with sunlight, either.)

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Everything I've ever read about the Drow in both the FR and other settings indicates that they were ebon-skinned and white-haired before they became "Drow".

Whilst 3E and terrible terrible D&D "authors" might have ret-con'd that, this is the absolutely the first I've heard to the contrary, in nearly 20 years of D&D.

 

[aurance]

If you're looking for an "official" answer, there isn't one.

There are many sources of Faerun's ancient history - novels, adventures, sourcebooks. They don't all necessarily completely mesh with each other.

While I wouldn't say this is intentional, it's not necessarily a bad thing either, as it does give it that ambiguous interpretation feel that ancient history tends to have in real life.

 

[hamishspence]

Myeritar

We know that some green elves got transformed along with the dark elves.

I could see pre-Lolth Dark elves as having same stats as green ones, but not same appearence. Maybe the Illithyri were just another green elf clan, but their appearance must have occurred pretty quickly, and cannot be related to tainting.

Possibility: given they all came through some 28000 years pre DR, but they were met by the elves of Tintageer 25000 years pre DR, thats 3000 years to work with. And they lived far to the south: sunlight bleaches hair and darkens skin over millennia. Maybe.

Or maybe its just that they were a varient of green elf that happens to look a little different.

 

[aurance]

Everything I've ever read about the Drow in both the FR and other settings indicates that they were ebon-skinned and white-haired before they became "Drow".

Whilst 3E and terrible terrible D&D "authors" might have ret-con'd that, this is the absolutely the first I've heard to the contrary, in nearly 20 years of D&D.

Nope. Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves, a 2e supplement, indicated otherwise.

 

[aurance]

We know that some green elves got transformed along with the dark elves.

I was under the impression that only dark elves (Ssri'tel'quessir) were the ones transformed, in Illythir and Miyeritar. Do you have a source for this?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Nope. Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves, a 2e supplement, indicated otherwise.

Thus directly contradicting other 2E FR products (including the main Dark Elf book, iirc), interesting.

 

[eryndel]

Historically, from a game perspective, the dark elves or drow have always been black skinned and white hair. Their pictures in the original Fiend Folio (IIRC) and in the Descent into the Depths series for the World of Greyhawk describe them this way, of which the Forgotten Realms happily borrowed. If I recall correctly, there existed a race of dark elves (shadow elves?) in the Mystara setting (the one that came with Basic D&D) in one of the gazetteers, that were cosmetically very different. Dark hair, maybe brown skinned.

As for Faerun's history of the dark elves, I don't have Evermeet, but the drow were descended from the Ilythiiri. They were there own distinct subrace even before the Descent. Races of Faerun denotes them the Ssri-tel-quessir, and the came to Faerun around the same time as the Ar-tel-quessir (sun elves) and Teu-tel-quessir (moon elves). They don't really describe what they looked like, but the curse of the Seldarine describes them being cursed and transformed, so it's likely they didn't have the white hair and black skin they now do.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Dark hair, maybe brown skinned.

Actually, Mystaran Shadow Elves were white-skinned (also described with "pale blue" skin) and white-haired, basically albinos, as a result of living underground next to a malfunctioning nuclear reactor. So maybe there's something from Mystara like that (it was the ultimate in "kitchen sink" technology), but it's not Shadow Elves.

 

[eryndel]

Actually, Mystaran Shadow Elves were white-skinned (also described with "pale blue" skin) and white-haired, basically albinos, as a result of living underground next to a malfunctioning nuclear reactor. So maybe there's something from Mystara like that (it was the ultimate in "kitchen sink" technology), but it's not Shadow Elves.

I think the Shadow Elves are what I was thinking, I just couldn't remember the details (though I remember they didn't look like drow). I'll chalk it up to not having looked at those books for something like 15 years.

Thanks!