Dark Sun in Dungeon #110

[Welverin]

Strikes me as semantics. If he acknowledges something as official continuity, that makes it canon. He can (has and will) change his mind on things and remove them from continuity when he does something else that negates them.

They're two different words, and have rather different meanings.

Though I probably should have left official off when refering to continuity, but it's rather beside the point.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Nor do I think that Mara Jade is suffering from a debilitating disease.

Not any more she doesn't...

Here's my stance on Canon vs non-Canon: I've seen five movies thus far and have no clue who the hell this person is. Now, she might be a big deal in someone's pistache, and many folks might like her as a character. However, to the average person on the street, Star Wars is only five movies, going on six, and rumored (yet again despite earlier claims to the contrary by Lucas) to be nine. And that is how canon should be gauged, not by a niche group of fans that want more than what Lucas has made.

Or, to put it into Gamer Speak: The movies are the Core Rules, everything else is a variant, with this EU thingy creating "official variants" in the same manner that Unearthed Arcana does.

 

[Alzrius]

They're two different words, and have rather different meanings.

In this context, "official" and "canon" (if those are the words) are the same thing.

 

[Wycen]

To my knowledge, there's at least 4 major conversions of Dark Sun out there:The Burnt World of Athas , Strutinan's conversion, Shei-Nad's d20 style conversion at The World of Athas, and one other that I've lost track of, not to mention the incomplete conversion by Steffan here at Enworld (as an aside, hope you haven't given up on it yet, Steffan ).

Strutinan's site is here: http://www.geocities.com/strutinan/ though you'd have to contact him via email and ask about his Dark Sun stuff.

 

[Ranger REG]

So, no matter how much something bites, if it falls within your definition of canon, it stays? Wow, that's lame, no offense. I'll stick with 'if it falls within my definition of cool, it stays'. Uncool stuff gets thrashed, trashed, and forgotten about, no matter where the source is. Been thinking about getting into a bit of Star Wars d20, but definately going to restructure some of the background more to me and my players liking.

Only as a point of discussion. Had it been my Star Trek game, anything relating to NX-01 and Archer & Co. simply does not exist, or reworked so they are partly responsible for the Birth of the Federation.

But Star Trek originated as a TV Series and later crossed over to another motion picture medium: theatrical film.

Dark Sun began as a campaign setting for use with the AD&D rules. So I look at what the owner of the Dark Sun IP to offer what is canon in that fantasy world. But hey, I'm just like everybody else. If it doesn't jive with me, I don't use it in MY Dark Sun campaign.

After I look at what canon material they have offered, then I look for any noncanon material, no offense intended to the folk at Athas.org web site.

 

[Ranger REG]

Here's my stance on Canon vs non-Canon: I've seen five movies thus far and have no clue who the hell this [Mara Jade] is.

I apologized. She is after all one of the characters in the Expanded Universe timeline. I confessed to having read Timothy Zahn's The Thrawn Trilogy.

But the one where Chewie (a definite canon character) got killed, that I do not accept.

 

[irdeggman]

OK Ranger REG let's try to settle this unsubtantiated claim here. . .

Here is a copy of the 'contract' that the Official Fansites had to sign before being granted that title by WotC.


It has not been amended by or rescinded by WotC yet, even thought the Official Fansite 'owners' have approached WotC on redefining or at least clarifying this document.

You read it and tell me what it says. . . .

******************************
Official Homepage Requirements
Wizards of the Coast values its intellectual property a great deal, and it also values its customers who make purchase decisions based on their love of the IP. As sales dwindle on certain worlds that we create, we make the decision to no longer produce printed materials for these worlds. As Wizards of the Coast desires to keep previous customers happy with the investment they have made with our products, we allow select websites to take over the duties of providing new materials for retired intellectual properties.

In order to be considered an official website, the site must:

a.) Portray the intellectual property in a manner consistent with its positioning. This information can be found in the Brand Positioning documents. In lieu of these documents, work with the Brand Manager of D&D Worlds on an approved look.
b.) Retain the iconic heroes, locations, magical items, and artifacts. Official sites are not allowed to kill off major PCs, destroy well-known artifacts, and similar activities.
c.) Official sites must have links back to the Wizards of the Coast website that tie to:
1.) Message Boards
2.) Chat Rooms
3.) Mailing Lists
4.) Online Catalog
5.) Online Store
6.) Campaign Worlds
7.) Dragon Magazine
8.) Dungeon Adventures
9.) Player Registry
10.) Books
d.) Official sites must not create their own community sections that duplicate those services and features offered by the Wizards of the Coast website.
e.) Provide new content for fans within the guidelines in sections A and B. While there is a great deal of latitude granted in this regard, official websites should remain in close contact with the Brand Manager of D&D Worlds (oracle@wizards.com).
f.) Keep Wizards of the Coast related materials separate from other non-game sections of the website. This means we don’t want to see other business ventures mixed in with our intellectual property, such as pornographic offerings, get-rich-quick schemes, etc.
g.) Conduct its activities in a professional and businesslike manner. This means that all actions on the part of visitors to the website should conform to generally accepted business standards. Sites should never sell visitor information records to other firms for the purpose of marketing, for instance.
h.) Refer players to the Other Worlds section of the Wizards of the Coast page instead of their own URL. While many fans will bookmark your own page anyway, it’s important that fans receive the other information presented at the Other Worlds section.
i.) Make the material available for free. You’re not allowed to charge for access to official products.

We encourage fan sites to begin making updates to their content to bring it in-line with 3rd Edition Dungeons & Dragons as soon as possible. We will begin phasing out web pages that do not offer 3rd Edition Dungeons & Dragons content soon after the launch of the new game system in August 2000.

In exchange for providing all of the official new material for an intellectual property, Wizards of the Coast agrees to:

a.) Provide prizes and other support materials at a level established by the D&D Worlds Brand Manager.
b.) Establish a direct link from the Wizards of the Coast web page to the official fan site.
c.) Have only a single source for all official content, that being your site. Other sites that wish to be listed as part of the IP will be directed to the official website.

This agreement will change as business necessities force us to alter the manner in which we do business. Should the intellectual property currently being supported by the official website be brought back into print, the official status of the web site will be removed and Wizards of the Coast will begin creating new content to support the relaunch of the game (or work with the current official site to migrate content over).

Content created on the official website is considered to be derivative work (as it is based on the intellectual property owned by Wizards of the Coast). This means that fan-created add-ons (such as new net books, adventures, etc.) are jointly owned by both Wizards of the Coast and the creator; neither can do anything outside the official website without the permission of the other.

Good Gaming!

Jim Butler, Brand Manager
D&D Worlds
Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
*****************************

 

[Welverin]

In this context, "official" and "canon" (if those are the words) are the same thing.

We were going on about the difference between canon and continuity, it was my use of official continuity that I conceded as being in error.

 

[Ranger REG]

OK Ranger REG let's try to settle this unsubtantiated claim here. . .

[ snipped for brevity. ]

So, what is WotC's stance with regards to Paizo's Dark Sun treatment (assuming you have been in contact with the current brand manager ... Charles Ryan, I believe)? Are you obligated to support it if WotC says it is official?

I mean, what do you want from me? Acknowledgement? Granted, Athas.org is the Official Fansite of Dark Sun, unless WotC says otherwise. Your content is official as long as they don't violate conditions (a) and (b) in the agreement above. I mean not even Decipher can't do anything to Captain Kirk in their Star Trek RPG without approval from Paramount, other to provide a character stat.

 

[Fiendish Dire Weasel]

First...

So, what is WotC's stance with regards to Paizo's Dark Sun treatment (assuming you have been in contact with the current brand manager ... Charles Ryan, I believe)? Are you obligated to support it if WotC says it is official?

I'd be curious to hear the answer to this as well, is Athas.org obligated to use and support what comes out in Dungeon & Dragon?

Second...

What issue is the Spelljammer mini-game in?