D&D 5E Dark Sun, problematic content, and 5E…

Is problematic content acceptable if obviously, explicitly evil and meant to be fought?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 206 89.2%
  • No.

    Votes: 25 10.8%

I think this is a cop-out, sure we could sanitize everything in a D&D fantasy game, but where do you stop? At the point that we all fight with foam bats instead of actual weapons and if the Beholder defeats you, it only demands more hugs? In D&D we generally fight the 'bad guys', but those 'bad guys' tend to be the exception instead of the rule. In DS the 'bad guys' are the rule, the 'bad guys' won, people try to survive after the 'bad guys' won, by any means necessary.
You can stop, or start, anywhere you like. It's your table and your players.

But WotC isn't your home table. They have to produce material accessible to... everyone, not just you. They're not going to have everyone fight with foam bats against a behugger because that's not what D&D is, but they are going to find a way to remove unnecessary evils that can and do harm real people from the game that they are selling.
 

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Let’s not forget that if WotC were to publish a true-to-the-original DS, they would necessarily be curtailing the free expression of their writers and artists by prohibiting them from reimagining the setting. :)
In this case, that would kind of be the point. An update of Dark Sun (or any other setting, for all that) to make it 5e compatible is just that: a mechanical update of an existing setting, with ideally very limited "reimagining" of the lore, fluff, or setting parameters. This is where they fell down with their other setting updates (looking at you, FR 3e, 4e, and 5e): too much reimagining and lore butchery and not enough simple system updating - maybe because mechanical updating doesn't fill very much page count and isn't very exciting to read?

If instead they want to reimagine or rebuild DS from the ground up they could (and maybe should) design a whole new setting, similar but not the same - maybe call it Light Moon or something - with its own lore and paradigms etc., and go with that.
 

Those are all funny words for applauding an IP holder's choice to not do something.
Now flip this, how much of a mess would it create if that same IP holder choose to not do something? Like being inclusive?

Sanitize means to clean something, that is not a particularly funny word. And that is exactly what companies like WotC are now doing, cleaning their IP/product of the things they now consider 'dirty' for their business. This is not about the choice of the IP holder. WotC is pretty much forced to choose this way, not by some moral compass, but by social pressure from a very small, but loud (political) group within their customer base. This group has sway over most of the rest of the customer base by shaming them to comply/accept their perspective. And companies go where the most money is, and that is with the biggest group of customers.

I absolutely agree that DS is not for everyone and has MANY troublesome subjects within the setting. Those are not things we 'enjoy' in the settings, but they are part of the setting, they give weight to the amount of evil in the setting. They are also not things that are easily removed or even possible to remove. Other people using those things in the setting to do a-hole things to other people is just an excuse, without DS they would find ways to do the same A-hole thing.

WotC pretty much said they can't fix DS without backlash, one way or another. They went for the option of not making another DS edition, with the only people complaining about it being the old fans that can't accept a different social/power structure among the current D&D customer base. This is the least amount of damage WotC can get out of the IP, as no one is not buying a product that doesn't exist. If they did produce it, the backlash would be huge and I suspect that there wouldn't be many sales. So what's the point of DS for WotC? It's a headache case that gets pulled out of the archive once in a blue moon to look at (again) to see if they can make any money from it without it causing a riot.

Am I happy that there is no official DS? No and yes. No because no new official DS. Yes, because I do not think WotC can do a good job anyway.

But WotC isn't your home table. They have to produce material accessible to... everyone, not just you. They're not going to have everyone fight with foam bats against a behugger because that's not what D&D is, but they are going to find a way to remove unnecessary evils that can and do harm real people from the game that they are selling.
Why do they have to produce material accessible for everyone? And what does that mean? Is that $375 mimic made for every D&D customer? I think not. Dungeons & Dragons vs. Rick and Morty was NOT made for every D&D customer, nor was Acquisitions Incorporated or The Stranger Things starter box. Nor does the D&D starter set come with braille dice...

In what way can DS do harm to real people? If there are subjects in there you don't want to deal with, don't play it! Uncomfortable with HoL, don't play it! Or do the subjects in DS make people racist, etc.? If that's how that thought process goes... Euhhhhh... What would video games then do to people?

I would say that murder is an unnecessary evil, murderhobo is an actual term. And sure we can say, those were all Evil by Nature beings, that's keeping it simple! ;) Unless you just murdered a bunch of Lizardfolk, whom are Neutral... Let's do away with the ability to play an Evil character. And let's not forget all the tools in D&D to do really bad things, like Charm Person. We can go down an extremely deep rabbit hole, especially with D&D!

We could of course fix that by not making it murder (kill unlawfully and with premeditation). Instead of adventurers (murderhobos), the default party could be City/Town/Village guards whom have the lawful option of using deadly force when necessary.... Yeah, that's not going to be problematic at all! All evil is unnecessary and that would put D&D without a job...
 

The most of D&D players are "good people", but it is only necessary a couple of "rotten apples" to cause a lot of damage against the prestige of the product.

Games Workshop has published books for children set in W40K, and you know this is really grimmdark

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I can understand the efforst to respect the modern sensibilities, but I suspect somebody may be be offended too easily. And I don't like the idea we have to accept certain sacrifices only because a little group can cause a lot of noise.

Athasian wild halflings can eat humanoids, but also the gnolls and lizardfolks, or the jerren, the vile halflings from 3rd Book of Vile Darkness. The Blackafrican cannibals were a trope in the old movies of Tarzan or adventures in the jungle. I watched Tarzan movies when I was a child and I didn't became a racist by their fault. And I also watched old petlum/sword&sandals movies with slaves.

The defiler magic can be updated with the "blighter" subclass. PC species can be update.

The doors for the return of DS shouldn't be totally closed, at least as option in other media, for example a videogame.

* What if the setting Jackandor were within the "Athaspace"?
 

(y)

Let’s not forget that if WotC were to publish a true-to-the-original DS, they would necessarily be curtailing the free expression of their writers and artists by prohibiting them from reimagining the setting. :)
I'm sorry, but they're clearly not going to do anything with DS, original or reimagined. By that metric, they're already curtailing the free expression of their writers.
 




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