Dark Sun

[ProfessorCirno]

Between stats higher than D&D norms (back when it really made a HUGE difference), the chance for anyone to conceivably be a wild talent (and possibly more powerful than a real psion), and 9-foot-tall mantis characters, Dark Sun was all about you being an awesome hero.

No it wasn't. It was made so you could survive in the wastelands.

Again, I feel Dark Sun was best played as gritty and dark as you could.

 

[Graf]

The idea that gritty = PCs must suck and have no interesting abilities doesn't really follow.
If you think about a lot of "gritty" movies the protagonist is usually 1. flawed in some fashion 2. pretty awesome, they're just up against people who are more dangerous.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

The idea that gritty = PCs must suck and have no interesting abilities doesn't really follow.
If you think about a lot of "gritty" movies the protagonist is usually 1. flawed in some fashion 2. pretty awesome, they're just up against people who are more dangerous.

Well, that's what I'm getting at. The PCs in Dark Sun are powerful, yes, but not more powerful then the world around them. Especially the world itself. I don't mean the NPCs - I mean the literal environment.

They're powerful so they can last more then twenty minutes.

...Usually. I've had some dumb players.

 

[hong]

Well, that's what I'm getting at. The PCs in Dark Sun are powerful, yes, but not more powerful then the world around them. Especially the world itself. I don't mean the NPCs - I mean the literal environment.

"How many hit points has the Earth?"

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Well, that's what I'm getting at. The PCs in Dark Sun are powerful, yes, but not more powerful then the world around them. Especially the world itself. I don't mean the NPCs - I mean the literal environment.

They're powerful so they can last more then twenty minutes.

...Usually. I've had some dumb players.

How does 4e make this any less possible? In 4e now, terrain and traps matter more are more interesting, monsters and opponents work together with tactics and deal out alot of damage, and can take lots.

So I'd say in making the PCs feel like they are in danger and must work together/muster what abilities they have to survive works quite well.

I don't see any rules reason that says the PCs should automatically beat everything.

 

[hong]

How does 4e make this any less possible? In 4e now, terrain and traps matter more are more interesting, monsters and opponents work together with tactics and deal out alot of damage, and can take lots.

So I'd say in making the PCs feel like they are in danger and must work together/muster what abilities they have to survive works quite well.

I don't see any rules reason that says the PCs should automatically beat everything.

I could imagine sending the 1st level PCs up against... oh, a 4th level solo monster.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

How does 4e make this any less possible? In 4e now, terrain and traps matter more are more interesting, monsters and opponents work together with tactics and deal out alot of damage, and can take lots.

So I'd say in making the PCs feel like they are in danger and must work together/muster what abilities they have to survive works quite well.

I don't see any rules reason that says the PCs should automatically beat everything.

I guess my issue was that the general feel and theme behind 4e - at last how I've seen it - seems the opposite of Dark Sun. What I've seen of 4e so far seems to place the importance on the characters being awesome heroes, whereas Dark Sun has, to me, been about the heroes trying not to die.

The first focuses on the good things the players have done, the second focuses on the bad things they haven't.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

That doesn't really have any correlation to the rules. If that was the case, then you could never have different settings, since one settings feel and theme would differ from anothers, so yeah they don't really have any mechanical impact on the setting.

When/if Dark Sun comes out the way it is written while still using core-4e rules will have a entirely different feel and themes.

 

[PeterWeller]

Eh, I always felt that in Dark Sun, the players were supposed to be bad ass heroes who rose above the horrible hell hole they lived in and hopefully, or just maybe, they'd raise up some of those around them.

 

[Boarstorm]

"How many hit points has the Earth?"

Sadly, I've been in games where this question has come up.

In regards to the question of Dark Sun and 4E: I think the setting would work well with the new edition, even with Cirno's interpretation of it as a "dark" and "gritty" setting.

Those things are largely determined by fluff, not mechanics. Certainly, there can be a bit of a jarring effect when you pull out your super powers while battling the minions of Cthulhu, but I don't think the discrepency in this case is large enough to create a problem.

I can definately see the Dark Sun rules suggesting a higher XP target per character for encounter design purposes in order to make you feel more insignificant.