EarthsShadow
First Post
Has anyone tried converting darkmatter into a d20 game, and if so, what did they do in their conversion? Or, has anyone used SpyCraft for darkmatter, and if so, how did it go?
DarkMatter d20?
- Thread starter EarthsShadow
- Start date
SJ
Explorer
Don't know yet....
I really liked the Alternity game (yeah I was one of the 5 people who did, evidently), and D*M just rocked. So when 3e was released I set in to convert stuff from D*M to d20. But then....
It's alot of work (IMHO) to rewrite the crunchy bits. The setting and atmosphere was easy. But the weapons just weren't working out.
The Shadow Chasers mini-game gave our group a good temporary holdover (I ran 2 mods, 1 originally slated for Greyhawk 2000 and another D*M game from Dragon using those rules) but when Spycraft came out I really thought we had our answer (instead of waiting for d20 modern).
So.....the jury's out for us, but I think Spycraft d20 is gonna be the smoothest transition. We haven't tested if full bore, but I'd really rather spend more time gaming than re-designing systems. Plus, other folk are much better at that than me.
I plan to play The Killing Jar using Spycraft, I'll let you know how it goes.
I like the thread and would be interested to hear what other D*M fans think.
SJ
I really liked the Alternity game (yeah I was one of the 5 people who did, evidently), and D*M just rocked. So when 3e was released I set in to convert stuff from D*M to d20. But then....
It's alot of work (IMHO) to rewrite the crunchy bits. The setting and atmosphere was easy. But the weapons just weren't working out.
The Shadow Chasers mini-game gave our group a good temporary holdover (I ran 2 mods, 1 originally slated for Greyhawk 2000 and another D*M game from Dragon using those rules) but when Spycraft came out I really thought we had our answer (instead of waiting for d20 modern).
So.....the jury's out for us, but I think Spycraft d20 is gonna be the smoothest transition. We haven't tested if full bore, but I'd really rather spend more time gaming than re-designing systems. Plus, other folk are much better at that than me.
I plan to play The Killing Jar using Spycraft, I'll let you know how it goes.
I like the thread and would be interested to hear what other D*M fans think.
SJ
EarthsShadow
First Post
that's cool...I was one of those 5 people then who really liked Alternity...
and in my opinion, as a complete die system, Alternity is vastly superior to 3rd edition and the whole d20 spectacle that has arrived in the last two years.
If you want to hear what I have done for my DarkMatter conversion, I'll let you know. I am just wondering what others are also doing.
and in my opinion, as a complete die system, Alternity is vastly superior to 3rd edition and the whole d20 spectacle that has arrived in the last two years.
If you want to hear what I have done for my DarkMatter conversion, I'll let you know. I am just wondering what others are also doing.
Friadoc
Explorer
I love(d) Alternity,
...in fact I kinda go out of my way to purchase anything missing from my Alternity collection, including ESDs.
Dark*Matter is, hands down, my favorite contemporary setting for an RPG - it's a blast!
I'm planning on using the setting material I own as a 'inspiration' for a d20 Modern game, once I have the book.
My group plays Alternity every now and then, but we've been mostly switched to d20, so as to cause less 'book' troubles for new players.
...in fact I kinda go out of my way to purchase anything missing from my Alternity collection, including ESDs.
Dark*Matter is, hands down, my favorite contemporary setting for an RPG - it's a blast!
I'm planning on using the setting material I own as a 'inspiration' for a d20 Modern game, once I have the book.
My group plays Alternity every now and then, but we've been mostly switched to d20, so as to cause less 'book' troubles for new players.
Purple
First Post
Friadoc said:
Are the two ESDs for Alternity any good? I was able to finish off my Alternity collection at Origins (got all of the DM stuff for 1/2 price), and when I went to see what I was missing, the only things that I don't have are the two ESDs. Given that I can't seem to find any reviews of them, I want some opinions before I buy them. Thanks,
-Purple
Alernity is the best!
Greetings!
It is nice to see that I am not alone in thinking that Alternity is a darn good system. (Best that I have read, imo.)
EarthsShadow - Thank you! Nice to hear someone else on this board that has the same opinion of Alternity that I do. (Do you go to alternity.net?)
I still don't get the d20 bandwagon. d20 is not the end all. NOTHING is. Since the game mechanics influence role playing, one set of rules can't do everything.
Again, doesn't mean I don't like d20 and what it is doing. 3E is the best edition of DND. I just think that the game mechanics of Alternity were much better.
Alas, as people say, when you can't get the books, it is tough to get new players. *sigh*
As for the ESDs, I purchased the Hidden Church and I really liked it. If you do any Dark*Matter stuff, it is a good supplement for that group. I actually had made that group the villains in a campaign I ran before I knew of the ESD. When I finally downloaded it and read it, it just added so much more that fit great with what I was doing.
I did more modern and fantasy with Alternity, so I never got the other ESD.
Thanks!
turlough
Greetings!
It is nice to see that I am not alone in thinking that Alternity is a darn good system. (Best that I have read, imo.)
EarthsShadow - Thank you! Nice to hear someone else on this board that has the same opinion of Alternity that I do. (Do you go to alternity.net?)
I still don't get the d20 bandwagon. d20 is not the end all. NOTHING is. Since the game mechanics influence role playing, one set of rules can't do everything.
Again, doesn't mean I don't like d20 and what it is doing. 3E is the best edition of DND. I just think that the game mechanics of Alternity were much better.
Alas, as people say, when you can't get the books, it is tough to get new players. *sigh*
As for the ESDs, I purchased the Hidden Church and I really liked it. If you do any Dark*Matter stuff, it is a good supplement for that group. I actually had made that group the villains in a campaign I ran before I knew of the ESD. When I finally downloaded it and read it, it just added so much more that fit great with what I was doing.
I did more modern and fantasy with Alternity, so I never got the other ESD.
Thanks!
turlough
EarthsShadow
First Post
I never got the ESD myself, but then again, lacking a credit or debit card doesn't help to much on that. 
I have begun to convert over Darkmatter, and for that fact, Alternity as they are the same system. It would not use the d20 license if it ever got that far enough for publishing, but I doubt WOTC would allow that to happen anyway since we would be using a product name that they originaly created and then did away with.
I keep the classes the same...Combat Spec, Tech Op, Diplomat, Free Agent, and Mindwalker. I kept the skills the same from Alternity and Darkmatter, meaning that there are broad skills and specialty skills. I did away with Base Attack progression as all combat related things, like weapons and unarmed combat are now skills. Skills increase incrementally, not just one point per rank. Now, to get a specialty skill to rank 3, it costs 3 character points to increase it to rank 3. 6 points for rank 6, and so on.
If its a class skill, then the cost is 1 point less.
Psionics are skill based, as in Alternity. Magic, if playing Darkmatter, is also skill based. There would be a whole slew of new feats.
Character progression still uses the standard Saves because the Saves do make a lot of sense. Debating if using Defense, ala Star Wars would work, or just using a system where each attack roll is compared to a defense roll.
This system does away with the simple charts in standard d20 with situational modifiers, so instead of having a concealment rating of a percent, if its really foggy then the attack roll suffers a -6 modifier to the attack, or something like that. (This is just an example). All situational modifiers affect the attack roll, not the defense rating or defense roll.
When creating a character, you don't roll for ability scores. Instead you spend 9 points among three categories: Raw Talent, Educational Level, and Wealth. You are limited to a maximum of 5 points in a single category, and you must put at least 1 point into each category. The categories use the following charts, and once this is figured then the points you put into the categories are then modified by the class you take:
Raw Talent - provides starting ability points
1 28
2 30
3 32
4 34
5 36
*6 38
*7 40
Educational Level - provides starting character points
1 30
2 35
3 40
4 45
5 50
*6 55
*7 60
Wealth - provides starting funds
1 3d8 x 100
2 5d8 x 100
3 6d8 x 100
4 7d8 x 100
5 8d8 x 100
*6 10d8 x 100
*denotes a result that can only be attained if your class modifier takes you up to this result.
Class Modifiers to above categories:
Combat Spec: +2 points to Raw Talent
Free Agent: +1 Point to Educational Level, +1 Point to Raw Talent
Tech Op: +2 points to educational Level
Diplomat: +1 Point to Educational Level, +1 Point to Wealth
Mindwalker: +1 point to Raw Talent, +1 Point to Educational Level
Raw Talent points are spent on Ability Scores as normal, they start at 8 and go up from there if your used to the chart in the DMG.
This system is used to denote that not everyone is the same and you have the choice to dictate just how much talent your character will have.
The other unique factor in this system is gaining levels. When you gain levels in this game, your character gets Character Points instead of skill points. Character Points are accumulated for your skills and Achievements that you want your character to have. This system will replace the standard get-a-feat-every-3-levels syndrome.
It would use the Vitality and Wound Points system, as Hit Points to me just don't work to well.
That's all the ideas I have so far, so if anyone has any input please don't hesitate to speak....errr.....write.
What do you think?
I have begun to convert over Darkmatter, and for that fact, Alternity as they are the same system. It would not use the d20 license if it ever got that far enough for publishing, but I doubt WOTC would allow that to happen anyway since we would be using a product name that they originaly created and then did away with.
I keep the classes the same...Combat Spec, Tech Op, Diplomat, Free Agent, and Mindwalker. I kept the skills the same from Alternity and Darkmatter, meaning that there are broad skills and specialty skills. I did away with Base Attack progression as all combat related things, like weapons and unarmed combat are now skills. Skills increase incrementally, not just one point per rank. Now, to get a specialty skill to rank 3, it costs 3 character points to increase it to rank 3. 6 points for rank 6, and so on.
If its a class skill, then the cost is 1 point less.
Psionics are skill based, as in Alternity. Magic, if playing Darkmatter, is also skill based. There would be a whole slew of new feats.
Character progression still uses the standard Saves because the Saves do make a lot of sense. Debating if using Defense, ala Star Wars would work, or just using a system where each attack roll is compared to a defense roll.
This system does away with the simple charts in standard d20 with situational modifiers, so instead of having a concealment rating of a percent, if its really foggy then the attack roll suffers a -6 modifier to the attack, or something like that. (This is just an example). All situational modifiers affect the attack roll, not the defense rating or defense roll.
When creating a character, you don't roll for ability scores. Instead you spend 9 points among three categories: Raw Talent, Educational Level, and Wealth. You are limited to a maximum of 5 points in a single category, and you must put at least 1 point into each category. The categories use the following charts, and once this is figured then the points you put into the categories are then modified by the class you take:
Raw Talent - provides starting ability points
1 28
2 30
3 32
4 34
5 36
*6 38
*7 40
Educational Level - provides starting character points
1 30
2 35
3 40
4 45
5 50
*6 55
*7 60
Wealth - provides starting funds
1 3d8 x 100
2 5d8 x 100
3 6d8 x 100
4 7d8 x 100
5 8d8 x 100
*6 10d8 x 100
*denotes a result that can only be attained if your class modifier takes you up to this result.
Class Modifiers to above categories:
Combat Spec: +2 points to Raw Talent
Free Agent: +1 Point to Educational Level, +1 Point to Raw Talent
Tech Op: +2 points to educational Level
Diplomat: +1 Point to Educational Level, +1 Point to Wealth
Mindwalker: +1 point to Raw Talent, +1 Point to Educational Level
Raw Talent points are spent on Ability Scores as normal, they start at 8 and go up from there if your used to the chart in the DMG.
This system is used to denote that not everyone is the same and you have the choice to dictate just how much talent your character will have.
The other unique factor in this system is gaining levels. When you gain levels in this game, your character gets Character Points instead of skill points. Character Points are accumulated for your skills and Achievements that you want your character to have. This system will replace the standard get-a-feat-every-3-levels syndrome.
It would use the Vitality and Wound Points system, as Hit Points to me just don't work to well.
That's all the ideas I have so far, so if anyone has any input please don't hesitate to speak....errr.....write.
What do you think?
SJ
Explorer
Making your skill check or scoring a threat in d20 is still fun and fine, but there is just something about the "Amazing" success that you got in Alternity that I thought just made the gameplay that much better .
Many of us still play and support game systems that have been retired (and that's a GOOD thing) but with the time req'ts and schedule for my game companions we just have to go d20 to keep the rule maintenance down. Frankly I like the Alternity system (some have said it was a precursor *test* for 3e?) better even than d20, I just don't get to exercise it as often.
At least there's still a few Alternity games left at GenCon this year, but after that I"m guessing it'll be slim pickings.
Maybe it was just that fact that rolling LOW was GOOD (finally something I am good at
)
EarthsShadow, you've clearly put some thought into the conversion, thanks for posting. I agree that some type of VP/WP is more appropriate.
What about feats? You're pretty much moving toward a d20 style, right? Or more of a hybrid approach?
SJ
Many of us still play and support game systems that have been retired (and that's a GOOD thing) but with the time req'ts and schedule for my game companions we just have to go d20 to keep the rule maintenance down. Frankly I like the Alternity system (some have said it was a precursor *test* for 3e?) better even than d20, I just don't get to exercise it as often.
At least there's still a few Alternity games left at GenCon this year, but after that I"m guessing it'll be slim pickings.
Maybe it was just that fact that rolling LOW was GOOD (finally something I am good at
)EarthsShadow, you've clearly put some thought into the conversion, thanks for posting. I agree that some type of VP/WP is more appropriate.
What about feats? You're pretty much moving toward a d20 style, right? Or more of a hybrid approach?
SJ
EarthsShadow
First Post
hybrid of sorts...
A hybrid of sorts. You know how achievements worked in Alternity, right? You get some points and when you got enough points you spent them on what you want to get...well, that's how this version will be also.
I think it gives the players more control and more options for their characters and I think players will take better care of their characters also.
I'm keeping the core of the d20 system, which is incidentally what the original Alternity game was if you think about it, a d20 system, but it used an alternate way of simulating success and failure...and had WotC used the Alternity game as the d20 system and called it Dungeons and Dragons...who knows how much would be available for Alternity??? Something they should have thought about I think, and I think they didn't.
Besides that...the only thing I am wondering is how to do defense with this system. In the original, all situation modifiers were used with the situation die, and I think that is what confused a lot of people, so instead of using a situation die I am just using various situations to modify the attack roll accordingly...but should there be a defense roll or just standard Def ratings with a base of 10 + class modifier + Dodge skill ranks + Dex modifier. ??? any ideas?
A hybrid of sorts. You know how achievements worked in Alternity, right? You get some points and when you got enough points you spent them on what you want to get...well, that's how this version will be also.
I think it gives the players more control and more options for their characters and I think players will take better care of their characters also.
I'm keeping the core of the d20 system, which is incidentally what the original Alternity game was if you think about it, a d20 system, but it used an alternate way of simulating success and failure...and had WotC used the Alternity game as the d20 system and called it Dungeons and Dragons...who knows how much would be available for Alternity??? Something they should have thought about I think, and I think they didn't.
Besides that...the only thing I am wondering is how to do defense with this system. In the original, all situation modifiers were used with the situation die, and I think that is what confused a lot of people, so instead of using a situation die I am just using various situations to modify the attack roll accordingly...but should there be a defense roll or just standard Def ratings with a base of 10 + class modifier + Dodge skill ranks + Dex modifier. ??? any ideas?
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