Darkness+Devil's Sight is killing my campaign

[jonexmachina]

In defense of warlocks

IMO, the Warlock is balanced in most campaigns, Especially as a PC. A party really gets on the nerves of a Warlock trying to pull the Fell Flight/Spiderwalk/FTS hit and run they are really good at - they may have unlimited damage, but in my experience it comes out really slowly, and fights are usually short enough that the warlock's Energizer Bunny trick doesnt really come into it.

Also remember the horrible base range on Eldritch Blast, and the fact that a warlock really only has 3 invocations to spend on Least - and there are much more appealing options than Eldritch Spear.

However, I feel the comparison to nonmagical ranged combatants is apt, but mostly because bow users are underpowered .

Conversely, I feel that magical ranged combatants (especially wizards) are overpowered - the warlock 15 might hit for his nasty Eldritch blast 95% of the time, but so does the wizard 15 using a Polar Ray for 15d6, or twinned empowered Scorching Ray for 30d6. He can only do it two or three times a day - but in a pitched fight, I would rather have fast than slow.


Edit - Warlocks are a little bit too good at lower levels, but that is really only compared to casters (which are always horrible until 3rd lvl) I believe that in most circumstances, an archer with rapid fire will beat a warlock in damage until about 5th level. (most circumstances meaning low ACs, as at low levels the MM is not yet obsessed with giving monsters huge natural AC)

 

[Nail]

SLAs???

Spell-Like Abilities.

Sorry.

Look, without putting too fine a point on it (as my palyers read these boards): monsters are essentially PC with different class abilities. Surely the conversion can work the other way, especially if you think the class in question is out of balance (and you want to give it a try).

A Warlock 15 is a CR 15, right?

 

[Hannibal Barca]

The ever morphing 3.0/3.5 Darkness, hit point rolls, warlock thread. Where will it go next?

 

[Thanee]

Did you know that ninjas can hide in shadows, even if they do not wear their black ninja dresses?

Bye
Thanee

 

[KarinsDad]

There really is no difference between total concealment and invisibility for an attacker.

"Invisible: Visually undetectable. An invisible creature gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its opponents’ Dexterity bonuses to AC (if any)."

Nothing states that invisible means that you must be under the influence of a spell or power.

A character in the dark is "Visually undetectable". A character in total concealment is "Visually undetectable".


Even without total concealment, you won't necessarily see an opponent until you make a Spot roll (or he shoots you or something) and if you cannot see your opponent, you are denied your Dexterity bonus to AC (minimally).

For example from the SRD:

"A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see."

"Blinded: The character cannot see. He takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any)"

"In areas of darkness, creatures without darkvision are effectively blinded. In addition to the obvious effects, a blinded creature has a 50% miss chance in combat (all opponents have total concealment), loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, takes a –2 penalty to AC"


Since the attack modifier rules for blindness and invisibilty are effectively the same (one is +2 to hit and the other is -2 to AC), it seems that if you do not see an attacker, it's tough to react. Granted, a DM could rule that you see the arrow for the split second that it comes into the light (and hence he does not get the +2 to hit), but if he would rule that for a character you cannot see in the darkness, why would he rule that way for an invisible character that is standing in bright light and firing an arrow at you?

In any case, this is how our DM is running it. It appears to be what was intended.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040224a

"When facing a totally concealed foe, a creature is denied Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class and the attacker gets a +2 attack bonus as well."

Thanks to Darkness for this link (in another thread).

 

[azmodean]

Hence, the reason for the "Flee the Scene" invocation (along with other concealing ones).

Actually, a level of Monk (taking Improved Grapple) or using up two feats to get Improved Grapple would seem prudent since this is a major weakness.

Grapple is still a killer for a warlock, even if they have improved grapple from somewhere, where do they get the strength and bab to out-grapple a fighter?

Also flee the scene still requires a hefty concentration check even if it does not involve somatic components.

Hmmm, only 20+spell level, can't remember the effective level of Flee the Scene, but if you max out concentration you should be able to pull some 30s by lvl 15, so about a 75% chance of making it I'd say.
Does casting a spell while grappled provoke AoOs? If so, how would casting defensively work?

 

[KarinsDad]

Grapple is still a killer for a warlock, even if they have improved grapple from somewhere, where do they get the strength and bab to out-grapple a fighter?

Warlocks have the 3/4 BAB progression. So, Improved Grapple would help a lot at low to mid levels (putting him at par or better when grappling than most Fighters or Monks at low levels). Even at high levels, say at level 20, his grapple check modifier would be:

15 + 4 + STR

versus the typical Fighter's (unless he too has Improved Grapple which is not too common for most Fighters) of:

20 + STR

Even a Monk with Improved Grapple only has:

19 + STR

and Monks without it have:

15 + STR

Granted, a Fighter will often have a higher strength, but this at least gives the Warlock a fighting chance. Plus, most Fighters cannot damage the Warlock too much while he is grappled (although Monks could).

And since Warlocks can make any item for which they have the item creation feat at 12th level, it seems prudent to take Craft Wondrous Item and make items which would help in a grappling circumstance (e.g. Strength item, Dimension Door item, Gaseous Form item, etc.), anything that would enable him to get out of a grapple.

One of the best items might be a Freedom of Movement Ring (which merely requires the Forge Ring feat).

Plus, if your opponent does not have Improved Grapple, then you get an AoO against him and if you damage him, the grapple fails.

All in all, Improved Grapple is almost a must for a Warlock who ever gets near melee range.

Also flee the scene still requires a hefty concentration check even if it does not involve somatic components.

Hmmm, only 20+spell level, can't remember the effective level of Flee the Scene, but if you max out concentration you should be able to pull some 30s by lvl 15, so about a 75% chance of making it I'd say.

Actually, Flee the Scene does still have a somatic component and cannot be performed while grappled. All invocations have a somatic component.

Fell Flight before being grappled is probably preferable to Flee the Scene, however, this would only work in 20+ foot high rooms or outdoors or such.

Does casting a spell while grappled provoke AoOs? If so, how would casting defensively work?

For a Warlock, he cannot perform invocations while grappled. He would have to rely on items or his own grappling ability to survive.

Outside of grappling (i.e. damage), he is allowed to "invocate defensively".

But, if you think about it, his grappling survival chance, even without Improved Grapple, is still often better than most Wizards or Sorcerers who would probably rely on Dimension Door if they make their Concentration roll.

 

[Gort]

I managed to get bored of playing a 10th level warlock I wrote as an NPC in a single fight. I think the true challenge of the warlock would be to find ways to not get bored of spending every single round casting eldritch blast over and over and over.

 

[Jhulae]

Devil's sight only has a 30' radius. And, while it lets you ignore darkness effects, it doesn't let you ignore invisibility. All you have to do is keep things more than 30' away and they're blind.

So, basically, you aren't having spellcasters (or rogues with wands) standing more than 30' away casting fireballs (or any other area effect) at the center of the darkened area? You're not using ranged weapons at all against these warlocks? You're not using a myriad of creatures (as was pointed out) that have no trouble overcoming darkness?

I dunno. Warlocks seem like they have some serious limitations to the power they wield.

 

[Particle_Man]

Warlocks have the 3/4 BAB progression. So, Improved Grapple would help a lot at low to mid levels (putting him at par or better when grappling than most Fighters or Monks at low levels).

And since Warlocks can make any item for which they have the item creation feat at 12th level, it seems prudent to take Craft Wondrous Item and make items which would help in a grappling circumstance (e.g. Strength item, Dimension Door item, Gaseous Form item, etc.), anything that would enable him to get out of a grapple.

One of the best items might be a Freedom of Movement Ring (which merely requires the Forge Ring feat).

This actually makes the point that the Warlock is so hosed in a grapple that they *NEED* to spend at least one feat purely to help them out in grapple situations. And unlike Wizards, Walocks do not get any bonus feats to play around with. Since they don't get the *kewl* "make any item with the right feat" ability until 12th level, that leaves Improved Grapple and Sudden Still Spell as the prime choices for the low to mid level Warlock. I went with Sudden Still Spell and Flee the Scene, myself.