Darkness not total?

[Taloras]

Damn...the 3.5 darkness spell doesnt do all that I thought it did....my idea was for a warlock/rogue.....devils sight+darkness = nasty.....but apparently the spell doesnt work that way anymore....

Devils Sight is an invocation that lets you see in darkness(natural or magical) up to 30 feat. darkness spell no longer grants total concealment, only giving 20%......meaning it doesnt help the rogue with sneak attacks, as they can still see it coming.

 

[Felon]

Note though that it does negate light sources of equal or lower level, which can effectively create darkness if light or continual light spells are the only sources of illumination. And some DM's house-rule that a darkness spell in an area that's already shadowy combine to create total darkness.

But yes, 3.5e nerfed darkness to prevent the exploitation of exactly the sort of tactic you're referring to. Before warlocks, players would do it with the blindsight spell from the FR sourcebook.

 

[Shin Okada]

Devils Sight is still useful for a rogue. A rogue cannot make sneak attacks if the target is getting concealment. So, in dim-lit area, your Warlock/Rogue can make sneak attacks but ordinary rogues can't.

 

[Krelios]

Plus even with 20% Concealment, your Rogue can still hide to make Sneak Attacks. He just has to make that check first. Heck, you could make an argument that the rules for "Sniping" (Ranged Attack, immediate re-hide at -20) would apply to Eldritch Blast as well, but that's kind of a stretch.

 

[Sadrik]

Note also something very dumb with darkness spell or usefull I suppose is that it makes the area full of shadows so if you were in a dark room you could raise the illumination to shadows in the area so you or other can see in it.

Sadrik

 

[TheGogmagog]

Note also something very dumb with darkness spell or usefull I suppose is that it makes the area full of shadows so if you were in a dark room you could raise the illumination to shadows in the area so you or other can see in it.

Sadrik

That's a debatable interpretation, not worth debating here, confirm with your DM. I think the more common interpretation is that it does not create shadowy illumination in natural darkness.

As noted above your rogue can still hide with the 20% concealment, and if his site allows him to ignore the 20% miss chance then he can sneak attack. Another way to sneak attack would be obscurement or fog cloud. If you are just inside the fog cloud you have concealment. A target just outside the fog cloud does not have concealment, so you can sneak attack him and have no miss chance.
I don't think that there are any spells that allow you to freely ignore concealment from fog clouds.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Debating...

That's a debatable interpretation, not worth debating here, confirm with your DM.

More importantly, before you debate it here.. go back a couple pages to read where it has already been debated

 

[ARandomGod]

Note though that it does negate light sources of equal or lower level, which can effectively create darkness if light or continual light spells are the only sources of illumination. And some DM's house-rule that a darkness spell in an area that's already shadowy combine to create total darkness.

But yes, 3.5e nerfed darkness to prevent the exploitation of exactly the sort of tactic you're referring to. Before warlocks, players would do it with the blindsight spell from the FR sourcebook.

Not actually true... 3.5 darkness creates light. It just lowers (or raises) the illumination to "shadowy". So even if your darkness spell just turned off ALL the other lights, it's still there providing all the shadowy illumination needed.

More importantly, before you debate it here.. go back a couple pages to read where it has already been debated

Post a link already. What if we don't find it? ^_^
This is one of my most hated spell effects. Darkness creates light indeed! What a horrible RAW fact (fact?)

 

[Sejs]

Note also something very dumb with darkness spell or usefull I suppose is that it makes the area full of shadows so if you were in a dark room you could raise the illumination to shadows in the area so you or other can see in it.

Sadrik

However, with Devil's Sight you wouldn't need to because you can see through the normal darkness just fine.

Only thing you'd be using the Darkness spell would be to let other people be able to see... sort-of.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Y'know, I really get annoyed at the non-accessable search function on these forums sometimes...

Google got me the following.. but I know there was a fairly recent one that got in depth on the subject that is not showing up.

Spells - Seeing/attacking out of Darkness http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=127549

Darkness better than Deeper Darkness http://www.enworld.org/archive/index.php/t-76858.html

Real Magical Darkness http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=123822


Short version as I recall it:

Per RAW, Darkness turns the current lighting condition to that of 'shadowy illumination' regardless of the current lighting condition. Therefore providing the odd circumstance of casting the spell in pitch black conditions and being able to enlighten the area with a 'darkness' spell.

Consensus reached was to HR that 3.5 Darkness caps the areas lighting condition at 'shadowy illumination' on the bright end of the scale. This means casting the spell in darker conditions has no visible effect while maintaining the spells primary function.
Kind of like turning a dimmer switch down.
Normal interaction with Light spells, so having a Darkness spell in a dark area will still have a benefit.

My input, and the way I handle it, is that a scale exists for lighting conditions in an area. Darknss spells reduce the condition 1 or more steps, light spells increase the condition 1 or more steps. Fiarly easy to do using a point based spell system

o- Blinding Sunlight
o- Bright Daylight
o- Cloudy
o- Shadowy Illumination
o- Darkness
o- Deeper Darkness


YMMV, etc..