Darkvision Ruins Dungeon-Crawling

[Argyle King]

Not really. If there's no light, then that means that the denizens can also see in the dark. If there is light, then you are more easily seen once you get into it . The monsters are rarely going to be standing out in the open at a distance of 60 feet away so that you can see them with dark vision and plan an ambush.

The disadvantage to perception is far worse than the off chance that you will see a monster from 60 feet away and get an ambush in.

Not necessarily. It's possible that the enemy is using light sources but you are not. It could also be the case that the environment does have light, but the darkvision party snuffed the light to start the assault.

I don't assume the monsters are standing out in the open. Having terrain to traverse helps the darkvision party use stealth and tactical movements.

It's nowhere near the most power 5e ability, but darkvision certainly is a force multiplier. It's actually even better than modern night vision because suddenly being introduced to light does not in any way negatively impact a character with nightvision.

It is still prudent to carry a light source for when it is needed (just like a melee character should still carry a ranged option).

 

[Leatherhead]

I'd argue that the well-lit Backrooms is one of the best megadungeons of all time.

I know I'm late to the thread and it's terribly off topic, but I hate how the Backrooms thing has totally ruined the beauty of liminal space by dragging it down to be nothing more than heavily filtered horror fodder.

 

[Argyle King]

In theory, yes. In practice, it's been my experience that most GM's in 5e don't allow you to unilaterally use the Help Action without some provisions.

Like say, you can't help someone open a lock unless you also have Thieves' Tools proficiency, or you have to explain how you are helping. One example I ran into was "I want to help another player keep watch".

The DM felt that you couldn't Help against an unknown (something you couldn't perceive yourself), so all that happened was that both characters were keeping watch with their own passive Perception ratings instead of boosting one character's passive by 5. I know this is getting into the weeds of what the rules say vs. how the game is played, but I encountered the mindset enough that I scrapped the idea of playing a Mastermind Rogue.

I think it's weird that helping someone keep watch wasn't allowed, but that's a different discussion.

It most certainly does help to have a second set of eyes looking for something, especially when visibility is limited.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I know I'm late to the thread and it's terribly off topic, but I hate how the Backrooms thing has totally ruined the beauty of liminal space by dragging it down to be nothing more than heavily filtered horror fodder.

It's the circle of life.

The same thing happened to creepy seven foot tall dudes who liked to hang out in the shadows near playgrounds after Slenderman hit.

 

[Umbran]

You don't need to teach grandma how to ...

Keep it clean, please.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You don't need to teach grandma how to…

Mod Note:

What on earth makes you think that kind of slang is appropriate here?

 

[aramis erak]

I don't think it ruins dungeoncrawling, but it does alter it.

Infravision in AD&D was thermal... but most of my friends never got to play with thermal imaging until much later... (For me, senior year of HS... got to use the cam on a P3 on the ground...)
It was a great idea. But it was hard as hell to implement in play.
Ultravision was just as bad, tho' I at least had a clue there.

Darkvision was a solution to the difficulty of adjudication: 120° cone of B&W is something there. Can't read a scroll or book with it, but can see that there's something book shaped there. And it stops dead at range X.

I like the Low Light Vision approach of WFRP 1... if you have it, within its range, treat light sources as a step brighter. But, again, that requires decent lighting rules AND it has an artificial limit.

Darkvision as used in WotC D&D is so much simpler to run...

 

[James Gasik]

I think it's weird that helping someone keep watch wasn't allowed, but that's a different discussion.

It most certainly does help to have a second set of eyes looking for something, especially when visibility is limited.

Their line of logic kind of went like this:

1 person watching- 1 person's Perception is being used.

2 people watching- 2 person's Perception is being used.

Where they balked was the idea that two watchmen could Help each other, boosting each other's Perception (advantage and +5 passive), which was somehow better than having a third watchman on duty.

I don't personally worry about things like this too much (though there is the occasional oddity like trying to Help someone else's Stealth check), but it's a common belief that rules < the game world making logical sense, which is the whole reason I brought this up.

There's also a lot of DM's who feel the Help action is abuseable (google 5e Help action and the second post leads to a discussion about how it should be limited), but then again, these are generally the same people who have an issue with Guidance being used liberally- which is, like you said, a whole different discussion.

 

[Maxperson]

Help action to help the lead person do all of that.

No. You can't help someone else see better. You can only have disadvantage just like they do. The help action is for physical acts, which is why it's in the combat section.

 

[Maxperson]

In theory, yes. In practice, it's been my experience that most GM's in 5e don't allow you to unilaterally use the Help Action without some provisions.

Probably because it's not possible to help someone see better in the dark.