Darkvision Ruins Dungeon-Crawling

[Argyle King]

Tell me how you standing next to me looking at the same place I'm look that improves my visual perception. I'm not looking at any greater square footage of space. So why would you looking at it make me better?

I've already answered that.

The absence or presence of additional detail may change the accuracy of how you perceive what is visually in front of you.


For me personally, I would say that the Helper needs to be more specific about how/where they are assisting. The drawback to that is two people being focused on one specific area, at the expense of covering a broader area. Also, as I said earlier, I might be inclined to rule that the Helper gets Disadvantage on initiative due to being so focused on aiding the other person. Essentially, the helping character is trading the initiative-advantage they might get from a surprise round for negating another character's Disadvantage on perception. That would be my personal ruling, not necessarily RAW.

Looking at 2024 RAW:
•Perception is a Wisdom Ability Check
•Darkvision turns Darkness into Dim Light
•Dim Light causes Lightly Obscured
•Lightly Obscured imposes Disadvantage
•Help grants Advantage on an Ability Check
•Advantage cancels out with Disadvantage

I believe it would be reasonable to say that the Helper also needs to have Darkvision (or scent, tremorsense, or some other special sense) to be able to help -despite that not being specified in the 2024 PHB.

Maybe the new DMG says something different.

 

[Mallus]

Infravision is not the ability to see in the dark. It only picks up thermal differences in your surroundings. It helps a good amount, but is not the same as seeing in the dark. You'll still miss a lot of little things.

True, I was going by this text from the PHB, "Elves have the ability to see into the infro-red spectrum, so they are able to see up to 60' in darkness, noting varying degrees of heat radiation."

Of course the DMG takes the perfectly clear "... see up to 60ft in darkness... " and complicates it with a block of technical-sounding verbiage which makes it less clear.

 

[Maxperson]

True, I was going by this text from the PHB, "Elves have the ability to see into the infro-red spectrum, so they are able to see up to 60' in darkness, noting varying degrees of heat radiation."

Of course the DMG takes the perfectly clear "... see up to 60ft in darkness... " and complicates it with a block of technical-sounding verbiage which makes it less clear.

I think that's because light spoils infravision, so you can only see heat radiation 60 feet in darkness.

 

[GobHag]

Tell me how you standing next to me looking at the same place I'm look that improves my visual perception. I'm not looking at any greater square footage of space. So why would you looking at it make me better?

Which is why you might succeed at your perception check where I fail.

Comparing notes on what you each see isn't helping another with visual perception. It's comparing notes. Helping another is picking up tools and helping someone make a raft. Helping another is putting stuff in front of a hiding spot to make it better for a hide check. Purely mental acts like memory and perception(brain processing what the eyes see) don't have a way for another to help them via helping another.

If we compare notes one or both of us may deduce(investigation check) something we both missed, but you're as likely to come up with that as I am, so you are not explicitly helping me with perception.

Actually, having someone next to me does help my vision though.

 

[Maxperson]

Actually, having someone next to me does help my vision though.

How? How does your vision improve with someone next to you? They could be awake or asleep and the effect on your vision would be identical.

 

[GMMichael]

How? How does your vision improve with someone next to you?

Sounds like you need to start a thread. "D&D: Can you help me see?"

A more pertinent question is: is dungeon crawling better with a spotter, even if neither has darkvision? Or, if the bard has darkvision and we don't, should we be nice to her while we're down here?

I'm getting anxious just thinking about being in the depths by myself . . .

 

[James Gasik]

Well, even if you can assist a Perception check, you're still penalized by dim light. It's just now your check and passive is straight up, not boosted.

Even though I still think it's weird that two characters working together see better than one, but three, four, or five characters working together don't claim any better results, lol.

 

[GobHag]

How? How does your vision improve with someone next to you? They could be awake or asleep and the effect on your vision would be identical.

They help me notice things, ergo; helps me see things

 

[Maxperson]

They help me notice things, ergo; helps me see things

You: They help me notice things.
Me: How?
You: They help me notice things.

Are you going to answer my question? How does someone sitting there saying nothing and doing nothing but looking at the same area you are improve your vision?

 

[GobHag]

You: They help me notice things.
Me: How?
You: They help me notice things.

Are you going to answer my question? How does someone sitting there saying nothing and doing nothing but looking at the same area you are improve your vision?

Because they help me by looking at things duh. I'm not quite sure what makes it so hard to understand?