CapnZapp
Legend
This thread presumes a certain degree of familiarity with the Dungeon Crawl Classics ruleset.
I thought about what I liked about DCC and how to use it in D&D:
Ability modifiers
First off, you need to consider whether it's worth the hassle of reining in ability modifier values:
D&D uses -5 to +5 while DCC uses -3 to +3. The benefit of the latter approach is that it doesn't matter as much if your character loses some ability points from a curse or a hangover or whatever; the actual modifier doesn't change that much.
DCC generally replaces high modifiers to rolls with some ability to roll extra dice. Instead of getting an ever-higher static bonus, you might get to roll a d4 extra at low level and a d12 at much higher level.
Also, DCC uses the "test" mechanic where you're asked to roll equal or under your characteristics score. While having a Strength, say, of 17 instead of 13 means your chance at succeeding when asked to test your Strength (say, lifting a boulder) increases from 65% to 85% (effectively representing a +4 bonus on a d20) your actual Strength modifier you use to attack and damage monsters only go from +1 to +2 = not a big deal.
You'll have to judge your players if they can accept ability score loss even if going from 17 to 13 means getting your attack total lowered two steps (with D&D ability modifiers) instead of just one step (with DCC ability modifiers).
D&D 5 already places a fairly hard cap on ability modifiers (compared to other editions of D&D) so it's less of an issue.
D&D implementation: Moderate. The more digital tools you use, the more I can understand you wanting to keep things compatible. If you play the traditional way (players sitting in a sofa with pen and paper), the change is trivial and recommended. In fact, I'm not going to concern myself with groups using the all-digital approach further since for them almost every change will be insurmountable.
Non-permanent permanent ability scores:
I think it's worth mentioning this separately. Too often, D&D players assume that once gained, a point of Strength or Intelligence or whatever is permanent. "You can kill my character but don't you dare remove my magic sword or my ability bonuses!"
The best way to wean D&D characters off of this is to simply have a lot of traps, curses and other effects that make character stats go up and down. Yes, you lose points "permanently", but is it really "permanent" if you can "permanently" get new points as well?
I would say this mindset is a significant part of why so many DCC adventures feel inspired and awesome.
The Funnel
Rather than allowing players to customize their characters to perfection (which doesn't do players with a tendency for minmaxing over roleplaying any favors) DCC uses the idea you start out with (say) four characters, only one of which is intended to eventually become your hero. The basic idea is that instead of being born into the role of (possibly entitled) hero, you will have earned this, complete with a couple of battle scars and stories of companions lost along the way. The funnel explicitly assumes some of the starting heroes will quickly die; players are not meant to focus on the entire group's survival. Instead, they're encouraged to view the start of the campaign as the fire that hones the blade, so to speak. From a group of (say) 16 bumbling villagers, a set of at least one shining hero per player will emerge!
So, instead of focusing on a single hero character, which you can give the "perfect" stats already from the start, you begin with four completely randomly rolled characters. Statistically, instead of beginning with one assured above-average set of stats, you begin with four sets of stats, one of which is likely much the same (above average).
D&D implementation: Easy. Just roll up characters randomly using plain 3d6 instead of 4d6 drop lowest, but each players gets to do this four times instead of once.
Even though there is a definite risk of none of your four characters reaching the level of the standard D&D array, in DCC this is never a problem, since you can always generate more new characters, and your GM might even have you meet - and recruit - NPCs (so you generate stats but don't start with a blank slate personality-wise). And rolling up a character with excellent stats can easily become more of a curse than boon, when nothing guarantees that character's survival!
Of course, if your players are already good at not min-maxing and focusing on character personality, feel free to skip the funnel.
Luck score
I love rpgs with some form of Fate or Chance statistic. At least for me, so many things happen where it's just a hassle to try to justify tying a challenge to a specific ability or skill. Instead, some characters simply are luckier than others.
To keep things simple, I won't be suggesting replacing any of D&D's six abilities (and all the rules changes that would entail). Far simpler to just add a seventh ability score: Luck.
Luck is used primarily to see whether your character was either lucky, or unlucky. Simple as that. Test your Luck, as it were. (Fighting Fantasy aficionados like me rejoice!
) Roll a d20. If it is equal to or less than your Luck score, you're Lucky. Otherwise, well...
Normally, if you try to add another ability score to a game without integrating it "properly" into all the actions and spells and effects of that game, it will quickly be that game's dump stat. Not so with Luck! In fact, in DCC it isn't ridiculous to want to play a character with great Luck even if every other score is mediocre!
Just Test your Luck alone can make Luck seem like your most valuable stat, but we've got more! I would recommend:
Of course, one major difference is that the unstated expectation of DCC Thieves is that they're all very lucky indeed. We will make no such assumptions here.
Spending Luck: You can spend one or more points of Luck to add a die (per point) to whatever roll you just made. The size of this die depends on your level (going from a d4* at 1st level to d12* at mid-level; then adding a static modifier to this as you climb towards level 20).
* We'll assume the weird dice of DCC aren't available to most players.
You do get to see the results of your roll before having to decide to use any Luck. I recommend you only give your players one shot at using Luck for each attack, save or skill check.
In DCC non-Thieves never gain back spent Luck points. Not automatically, that is - you can still gain more Luck points (just like you can gain points of any ability score) but not in a controlled, dependable fashion. While getting back your level amount of Luck points each day makes for a very fun character, especially during scenes spanning multiple days such as downtime carousing and long journey adventures, the fact is D&D characters don't need it the way DCC Thieves do.
I would simply make sure to be generous with Luck while keeping the players in the "Luck spent is permanently lost" mindset. (I even created a companion table to carousing which is fairly generous with Luck)
Maybe you can offer a feat that grants +1 Luck a day or something. Another option is the "fleeting Luck" rules option (first introduced to DCC by the Lankhmar box):
Adding Luck can make you wonder: won't this make adventures easier?
Well, I have yet to meet a DM worth his or her salt that can't fix this problem (spoiler alert: Just make things harder) so I honestly think no changes need to be made here.
Thoughts?
I thought about what I liked about DCC and how to use it in D&D:
Ability modifiers
First off, you need to consider whether it's worth the hassle of reining in ability modifier values:
D&D uses -5 to +5 while DCC uses -3 to +3. The benefit of the latter approach is that it doesn't matter as much if your character loses some ability points from a curse or a hangover or whatever; the actual modifier doesn't change that much.
DCC generally replaces high modifiers to rolls with some ability to roll extra dice. Instead of getting an ever-higher static bonus, you might get to roll a d4 extra at low level and a d12 at much higher level.
Also, DCC uses the "test" mechanic where you're asked to roll equal or under your characteristics score. While having a Strength, say, of 17 instead of 13 means your chance at succeeding when asked to test your Strength (say, lifting a boulder) increases from 65% to 85% (effectively representing a +4 bonus on a d20) your actual Strength modifier you use to attack and damage monsters only go from +1 to +2 = not a big deal.
You'll have to judge your players if they can accept ability score loss even if going from 17 to 13 means getting your attack total lowered two steps (with D&D ability modifiers) instead of just one step (with DCC ability modifiers).
D&D 5 already places a fairly hard cap on ability modifiers (compared to other editions of D&D) so it's less of an issue.
D&D implementation: Moderate. The more digital tools you use, the more I can understand you wanting to keep things compatible. If you play the traditional way (players sitting in a sofa with pen and paper), the change is trivial and recommended. In fact, I'm not going to concern myself with groups using the all-digital approach further since for them almost every change will be insurmountable.
Non-permanent permanent ability scores:
I think it's worth mentioning this separately. Too often, D&D players assume that once gained, a point of Strength or Intelligence or whatever is permanent. "You can kill my character but don't you dare remove my magic sword or my ability bonuses!"
The best way to wean D&D characters off of this is to simply have a lot of traps, curses and other effects that make character stats go up and down. Yes, you lose points "permanently", but is it really "permanent" if you can "permanently" get new points as well?
I would say this mindset is a significant part of why so many DCC adventures feel inspired and awesome.
The Funnel
Rather than allowing players to customize their characters to perfection (which doesn't do players with a tendency for minmaxing over roleplaying any favors) DCC uses the idea you start out with (say) four characters, only one of which is intended to eventually become your hero. The basic idea is that instead of being born into the role of (possibly entitled) hero, you will have earned this, complete with a couple of battle scars and stories of companions lost along the way. The funnel explicitly assumes some of the starting heroes will quickly die; players are not meant to focus on the entire group's survival. Instead, they're encouraged to view the start of the campaign as the fire that hones the blade, so to speak. From a group of (say) 16 bumbling villagers, a set of at least one shining hero per player will emerge!
So, instead of focusing on a single hero character, which you can give the "perfect" stats already from the start, you begin with four completely randomly rolled characters. Statistically, instead of beginning with one assured above-average set of stats, you begin with four sets of stats, one of which is likely much the same (above average).
D&D implementation: Easy. Just roll up characters randomly using plain 3d6 instead of 4d6 drop lowest, but each players gets to do this four times instead of once.
Even though there is a definite risk of none of your four characters reaching the level of the standard D&D array, in DCC this is never a problem, since you can always generate more new characters, and your GM might even have you meet - and recruit - NPCs (so you generate stats but don't start with a blank slate personality-wise). And rolling up a character with excellent stats can easily become more of a curse than boon, when nothing guarantees that character's survival!
Of course, if your players are already good at not min-maxing and focusing on character personality, feel free to skip the funnel.
Luck score
I love rpgs with some form of Fate or Chance statistic. At least for me, so many things happen where it's just a hassle to try to justify tying a challenge to a specific ability or skill. Instead, some characters simply are luckier than others.
To keep things simple, I won't be suggesting replacing any of D&D's six abilities (and all the rules changes that would entail). Far simpler to just add a seventh ability score: Luck.
Luck is used primarily to see whether your character was either lucky, or unlucky. Simple as that. Test your Luck, as it were. (Fighting Fantasy aficionados like me rejoice!
) Roll a d20. If it is equal to or less than your Luck score, you're Lucky. Otherwise, well...Normally, if you try to add another ability score to a game without integrating it "properly" into all the actions and spells and effects of that game, it will quickly be that game's dump stat. Not so with Luck! In fact, in DCC it isn't ridiculous to want to play a character with great Luck even if every other score is mediocre!
Just Test your Luck alone can make Luck seem like your most valuable stat, but we've got more! I would recommend:
- having your Luck score modify saving throws. (If you have a +1 Luck modifier, you get +1 to any and all saving throws) Just remember it is your current Luck score that determines the bonus, not some semi-permanent ever-increasing value!
- have Luck influence who monsters attack (if you were mauled by the mountain lion, it probably happened because you're unluckier than Bob). This can be used by crafty players: a tank-y Fighter can even enjoy a low Luck score since it gives him an almost magical ability to attract enemies!
Of course, one major difference is that the unstated expectation of DCC Thieves is that they're all very lucky indeed. We will make no such assumptions here.
Spending Luck: You can spend one or more points of Luck to add a die (per point) to whatever roll you just made. The size of this die depends on your level (going from a d4* at 1st level to d12* at mid-level; then adding a static modifier to this as you climb towards level 20).
* We'll assume the weird dice of DCC aren't available to most players.
| Level | Luck Die |
|---|---|
| 1 | d4 |
| 3 | d6 |
| 5 | d8 |
| 7 | d10 |
| 9 | d12 |
| 11 | d12+1 |
| 14 | d12+2 |
| 17 | d12+3 |
| 20 | d20 |
In DCC non-Thieves never gain back spent Luck points. Not automatically, that is - you can still gain more Luck points (just like you can gain points of any ability score) but not in a controlled, dependable fashion. While getting back your level amount of Luck points each day makes for a very fun character, especially during scenes spanning multiple days such as downtime carousing and long journey adventures, the fact is D&D characters don't need it the way DCC Thieves do.
I would simply make sure to be generous with Luck while keeping the players in the "Luck spent is permanently lost" mindset. (I even created a companion table to carousing which is fairly generous with Luck)
Maybe you can offer a feat that grants +1 Luck a day or something. Another option is the "fleeting Luck" rules option (first introduced to DCC by the Lankhmar box):
- "Fleeting Luck" are temporary Luck points added on top of your "permanent" Luck score. They can be lost at any moment, so spend them while you still got 'em! Obviously, you will want to spend fleeting Luck before you spend your regular points.
- Start each longer game session with 1 fleeting Luck. You gain +1 fleeting Luck each time you roll a critical success (natural 20) or whenever the DM (or play group!) wants to reward particularly good or funny roleplaying
- Whenever a player rolls a critical failure (natural 1), all fleeting Luck is lost (for every player character). Now you know why they're called "fleeting"!
- Maybe best to use coins, poker chips or the like to track fleeting Luck, since they change constantly.
Adding Luck can make you wonder: won't this make adventures easier?
Well, I have yet to meet a DM worth his or her salt that can't fix this problem (spoiler alert: Just make things harder
) so I honestly think no changes need to be made here.Thoughts?
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