DDI - vMinis are Extra?

[Asmor]

You're assuming that the virtual tabletop will let you use the huge dragon mini with the stats of a 6-headed hydra. I'm not saying that you won't be able to, but I don't think we know for sure either way at this stage.

Olaf the Stout

Well, they've said that the table doesn't enforce any rules at all. It's literally a virtual table, and has as much to do with rules arbitration as does your dining room table.

Well, except that the virtual table doesn't have that annoying seem where the leaves meet which cocks dice, of course.

 

[Glyfair]

You're assuming that the virtual tabletop will let you use the huge dragon mini with the stats of a 6-headed hydra. I'm not saying that you won't be able to, but I don't think we know for sure either way at this stage.

Absolutely you'll be able to. They have stated that the virtual tabletop will not "adjudicate rules." You can pretty much play any RPG on the virtual tabletop, as long as they use grids and take place in D&D type environments.

Like Asmor, I too was under the impression that tokens would be available to use for free. If you wanted 3D rendered digital minis then it costs extra. I think it is a pretty sucky thing to do but that is the choice WotC have made.

The best place for information on the WotC site is to do a search on Didier Monin's posts. He and Scott Rouse have had most of the DDI info (Scott as much here on ENWorld as on the WotC site).

Some bits and pieces on VMinis:

Here Didier mentions that the players and DM share the VMinis. If a player has a monster VMini, than the DM can use it.

Here is nothing on the minis, but a difference between a free access and a DDI subscriber (such as what you can do with the Character Builder if you don't subscribe,

A bit here about how many custom 3D minis can be used at the table.

HEre are details about the fact that the virtual game table not adjudicating rules.

Here he states the character visualizer will allow you to create tokens and minis of your character.

Here are some bits about VMinis (such as the fact that the random distribution method was considered....and discarded).

Here are some bits about tokens and miniatures, including the fact that all the MM I monsters will have tokens in the initial rollout.

Here he states that if you cancel your subscription you can still use your VMinis (such as when playing on a guest pass).

I'm pretty sure that Scott Rouse was the one who stated that a set of VMinis would be available to subscribers initially, although it might be a limited time offer. Someone else can do search to find them for those who don't want to do the legwork.

 

[Mark]

Some bits and pieces on VMinis

Thanks, David.

 

[Darrin Drader]

With Magic Online, if you wanted a certain card in your deck, you had to get it somehow. Without it, your "game experience" would be altered. With DDI, having a 2D token available anyway means that the 3D item is not necessary for play. Even if the 2D token was not available, you'd most probably use your huge dragon to replace a 6-headed hydra - like you do with "real" minis.

That is absolutely true.... unless one of the features they haven't announced is the ability to play the D&D minis game online, in which case you would need the actual miniatures to play.

 

[fiddlerjones]

If I'm not mistaken though, at least at one point on M:tG Online you could exchange your virtual cards for real cards that would be mailed to you and removed from your online collection (not sure if this is still true, as I've never played M:tGO). If I could exchange my vBeholder for a real one, then maybe, MAYBE. Even still, it's a really bad idea, and I will not be buying vMinis.

I could also see DDI using the WoW model, where you buy the initial Virtual Tabletop program in stores and can use it online with vMinis corresponding to all DDM minis released to date plus a character builder if you subscribe to DDI. If you don't subscribe, you can use it on your own computer in a "hot seat" kind of method, still with all the features. Then, whenever a minis set is released, make the entire set available in stores as a $5 or $10 expansion. Or just let people download it. I'd buy that.

 

[Wepwawet]

I heard somewhere that you have to pay for each set of virtual dice too
And tiles and decorative items heheheh

Well, I was very excited about D&Di, but it looks like I'll pass.
If this all is confirmed, not even one month for testing.

There are nice opensource options that I can use.

 

[TimeOut]

How is this different than Magic Online? People have been paying WotC for virtual objects since 2002. Now the amusing bit is going to be when it comes out that the models match the existing mini sets, and when you pay for the virtual minis, you're actually paying for virtual randomized minis. Now I don't mind the randomization with the real minis that much, but paying extra for randomized Vminis is really a stretch for me.

The official Magic Online was equally stupid. I can't understand why people buy virtual objects with real money, especially if you can't convert your investment into something real.

If the servers go down, all your investment is lost.

Stupid idea, but then this DDI idea was never one of their brightest ideas.

 

[wedgeski]

The official Magic Online was equally stupid. I can't understand why people buy virtual objects with real money, especially if you can't convert your investment into something real.

I'm happy to spend money for utility. It's why I have an online DVD rental membership, why I pay a sizable amount each month so that my wife and I can play WoW together, and so-on. I get nothing physical from these investments but I get a whole lot of leisure utility.

Having said that I have no intention of buying vMini's unless the price is really low (we're talking a few pence/cents per mini or less), and the quality of the modelling really high. In other words I'm potentially in the market, but on terms which I doubt Wizards can meet.

 

[TimeOut]

*snip*why I pay a sizable amount each month so that my wife and I can play WoW together, and so-on.

I play WoW too. But it is fundamentally different from Magic Online. In WoW you pay a monthly fee for the complete game, including patches. Anything you want to acquire in the actual game comes at no extra cost only limited by time and effort spent.

Magic Online on the other hand uses more of a micro-transaction (I hate them) based system. You gain the basic gameplay for free (or a smaller fee) and must buy each thing you wish to use in the game. You can't just try to find item x, you must buy it.

The effects are clear: The first game has a fixed monetary cost and an open ended effort cost, while the second one has no effort cost and an open ended monetary scale.

Edit: A good read about the effects of the second implementation can be found here: http://www.danwei.org/electronic_games/gambling_your_life_away_in_zt.php

I can agree with the notion of paying for services. I can't agree with paying extra for mandatory ingredients of a package, especially if you must pay a subscription fee already.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Thanks for the info Glyfair. Very useful.

Olaf the Stout