DDI vs WoW

xechnao

First Post
I read this post at the rpg.net forums. It rises some points that I wanted to share with you here and get your reaction -even to see if they do mean anything to you:


... It does ape WOW. It need not be a one-to-one comparison. The use of Marks by some Defenders and Strikers (aping Warriors, Paladins, and Hunters), the changes to the design and presentation of the classes to make them recognizable by MMORPG players (taking informal roles, making them explicit and reorganizing the game around the MMORPG paradigm of five-man groups with Tank/Healer/DPS (often with various forms of Crowd Control) through the Defender/Striker/Leader/Controller scheme (breaking Crowd Control into its own niche, ala City of Heroes) and wholesale redesign of some classes away from their historical niche (Rogues are now less thieves and confindence men, instead being more assassins and thugs, just like Rogues in WOW), the extreme focus upon encounters as the foundation of both content organization (modules) as well as class abilities (aping the dungeon instance design for both small and large group content), the increased emphasis on movement and positioning from what was already extant in 3.X (to strongly push miniature and map sales, recreating the similar effect that strong visual representation has on gameplay as seen in WOW in its boss fights and in PVP), and the reorganization of its supplemental product release schedule into more of an annual expansion paradigm with fewer (but, historically, more frequent) smaller supplements (more Expansion Packs, less Patches).

The success of this scheme will be measured by the DDI, with the pressure from above to make the TRPG into crippleware without the DDI being the metric for failure, because Hasbro's shareholders and senior management will demand that D&D's performance become like WOW's performance and that will mean forcing larger degrees of network effects out of the D&D customer base: more RPGA sort of formalized and organized play (again, aping WOW) as well as greater degrees of dependance upon the DDI for customers to stay up to date on the game (and, as WOTC has its basis in CCG design, they know how to make that happen).

The initial year or so of 4.0 should, by all appearances, be wildly successful. Pay attention to the quarterly reports, however, as well as communication between Hasbro's board/shareholders and WOTC management; what those two bodies see as success is what governs things here and if they aren't seeing 4.0 meeting their expectations (however inappropriate or unfounded they may be) then they will strongarm WOTC into making changes that they believe will make it happen. A year or so from now, when the second year of 4.0 is about to start, that is the time when we'll see how successful 4.0 really is in the marketplace; D&D 4.0, said or unsaid, is aimed at attacking WOW because that's the only competition that D&D has anymore. (Hell, 3.5's attacked WOW on and off for some time, and that failed; we're already at Second Degree Failure Response.)

I expect it to fail and I expect it to fail because the fundamental differences between the TRPG medium and the MMORPG medium cannot be bridged by any amount of game design or by the very best marketing campaign; you can't play TRPGs whenever you want, as you want, how you want because you have to have at least one other person to play them at all- and you usually need more than that. Futhermore the rules and content emphasis of 4.0 is something that MMORPGs are far superior at executing than TRPGs; the only advantage that TRPGs have is in speed of content release, and that is only if the individual GM half-asses it through a myriad of shortcuts and stock content (reused statblocks, sticking to what he's memorized through long familiarity, glossing over everything that needs no stats to interact with it, etc.) because publishers don't have that luxury. On the other end is the still unacknowledged nature of TRPG products as being capital goods; you can't use them out of the box, but instead use them to make your games--they are the tools to make the final, consumer product and not the product itself--and that is why one man can buy one set of rulebooks 30 years ago and yet remain an active hobbyist with a content regular group for all those years.

For the TRPG as a product category to survive another generation, it must shed its current form and audience; the existing one is shrinking and aging, many of them going to MMORPGs because the latter is a no-brainer better deal all around for them, and that is where the action--business and gameplay--is these days. A new audience must be found, cultivated and nurtured through a new TRPG that is not D&D in function or form. There are strengths to this medium that MMORPGs do not possess and cannot counter; those must be found, understood and then exploited for renewed commercial and cultural success. In short, TRPGs need to wholly reinvent themselves and the culture that surround them because the old one just upgraded to a superior medium with a far larger and more vibrant scene.

And the first feedback that may be worth seeing too:

No offense, Bradford, but you're a bigger joiner than I am, and that's saying something. I suspect that your commentary has to do with wanting to be part of the "biggest and best" crowd, and right now that's WoW (even though there is some evidence suggesting that there are, in fact, approximately as many D&D players as WoW players in North America and the huge number of Korean players - as many as 6 million of WoW's 10.5 million users - skews WoW's player base estimates, though WoW is still HUGE by any standard). The trick that Wizards needs to accomplish with the current generation of D&D is converting a significant number of D&D's ~5-6 million worldwide players into active and consistent purchasers of D&D-branded product.

I hope that they can accomplish that because getting more money into the RPG business is a Good Thing.

Now discuss :D
 

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While Bradford is correct that RPG products are analogous to capital, I don't find many of his other points compelling. Indeed, he seems to be ignoring the fact that RPGs have a business model: create ongoing rules and setting content that gamers will pay for on a regular or semi-regular basis. DDI is mostly an extension on this, making use of the economy of internet delivery over that of printing.

Some of the points that Bradford makes actually make DDI seem like a better idea that I initially thought. He points out that people turn to video games because they are not able to get together. Yet the guild phenomenon of WoW and similar games shows that people want to get together to play. DDI may actually meet the needs of this group of people. As other communication technologies grow, online RPG playing may be increasingly attractive.
 

Kwalish Kid said:
I don't find many of his other points compelling.
Such as...and why...?

Kwalish Kid said:
Indeed, he seems to be ignoring the fact that RPGs have a business model: create ongoing rules and setting content that gamers will pay for on a regular or semi-regular basis. DDI is mostly an extension on this, making use of the economy of internet delivery over that of printing.

I haven't got this. I think he is arguing that the tabletop business model should not try to compete with the MMO model and instead try to evolve or revolve in a way that originates and capitalizes to its basic unique premises and strengths in the new era.


Kwalish Kid said:
Some of the points that Bradford makes actually make DDI seem like a better idea that I initially thought. He points out that people turn to video games because they are not able to get together. Yet the guild phenomenon of WoW and similar games shows that people want to get together to play. DDI may actually meet the needs of this group of people. As other communication technologies grow, online RPG playing may be increasingly attractive.

But there has been distant tabletop online gaming for quite some time now such as for example PBP/PBEM.
 
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Most of the points of D&D aping WoW I think have it backwards - in some way, shape, or form, most of the concepts started in tabletop gaming, and moved into the electronic form.

D&D started as a bloody tabletop wargame, which already had an idea of combat roles, for cryin' out loud! RPG players have known about combat roles since the 1970s! D&D is not aping WoW to make them a touch more obvious in the structure. (Sorry, knee-jerk reaction of mine when I run into such historical ignorance.)

The real aping going on with DDI is not one of the game structure, but of the business model - trying for subscriptions to get more consistent revenue flow.

Online electronics or not, "attacking" WoW would be rather like the apples taking on the oranges, and I'm fairly certain Hasbro, WotC, and the designers are well aware of it.
 

It's worth mentioning that up until Gen Con of last year, Bradford was a huge D&D booster; it is entirely possible and in fact likely that he feels betrayed that D&D has moved on past his preferred version. ;)

I stand behind my RPGnet comments and add that while I don't find it ideal, D&D Insider is a drastically belated but still much appreciated step toward an RPG company finding a sustainable market strategy in the digital age.
 

Bradford Walker, aka Corinth, posts here too, you know.

xechnao said:
I haven't got this. I think he is arguing that the tabletop business model should not try to compete with the MMO model and instead try to evolve or revolve in a way that originates and capitalizes to its basic unique premises and strengths in the new era.

Well, maybe. ATM his argument is something like this.

1) TRPGs must shed their current form and audience. A new audience must be found, cultivated and nurtured through a new TRPG that is not D&D in function or form. In short, TRPGs need to wholly reinvent themselves and the culture that surround them.

2) ?????

3) Profit!
 

I don't think the corporate overlords are going to expect the dumptrucks full of cash that WoW produces, they just want More.
 

Bradford has a negative opinion of adapting gameplay mechanics from MMORPGs. I don't. His use of "ape" throughout the whole rant pretty much shows his bias. Good game design is good game design. If anything made Rogues less thieves and confidence men, it was 3E, not 4E. Skills are available to everyone. None of the 3E Rogue class abilities made them better thieves or confidence men. As skills, they are equally available to everyone. Again, IMO, a good thing.

The observation that there is increased emphasis on movement and positioning, and tying it in to mini/map sales is a valid one. It's not something I have a problem with, but I don't begrudge those who dislike the game for having this emphasis. However, implying that the decision is trying to "compete with WoW boss fights" I think is kind of a stretch to support his "DnD is WoW" argument.

The success of all of these shifts of focus aren't tied to DDI. I hear that being said, but I just don't see it. At all. And if Wizard's IS tying the success of 4E to the success of the DDI, I think 4E would fail by that measure. But again, I just don't see that as WotCs aim.

He's right that there are fundamental differences between the TRPG medium and the MMORPG medium. The implication that there needs to be a "bridge" between the two is a faulty one. A person doesn't need to choose between playing WoW and playing DnD. A person can play both. I used to play both. I quit playing WoW because it didn't deliver what I was looking for. Another guy in our group quit playing DnD because it didn't deliver what he was looking for. Most of the other players in our group still play both, with no sign of stopping either.

I think if DnD, and TRPGs in general, tried to change in such a way that they WERE directly competing with WoW, THAT would be the end of TRPGs. Because he is right, the things a computer can do will never be as adequatly or efficiently done by a human. But as it stands, there is a lot that MMORPGs cannot do that TRPGs do well. And it's expanding and supporting those elements that RPG companies need to focus on (and I believe they are).

He is also right in that a new audience for TRPGs must be found. I don't believe that it has to shed its existing audience or form to do that. I'm not in a position to judge right now whether 4E will be successful in that respect. I don't think for a moment that WotC or any game publisher is ignorant of this fact, and trust they will be doing what they think is right to succeed on that front.
 

Yes... Step 2, oh where are thou?

Perhaps it's time to ask the underwear-gnomes for step 2. They might help the D&D-gnomes how to make profit. :D
 

You cannot attempt to match or emulate WoW with any product, be it PnP or even another MMO. WoW is a phenomenon: The stars were right, and it became monolithic. Unfortunately, companies fail to grasp that and think their products will match it.

Then again, I disagree with his fundamental argument that D&D is attempting to emulate WoW in the first place, and his hackneyed 'Hasbro's suits are ruining everything argument' and the idea that D&D must reinvent itself. Reinvent itself into what? Bradford talks much, but says very little IMO, as Hong illustrated.

And honestly, I don't think the DDI is going to make games any 'easier' to schedule. Anyone who's run a PnP RPG online probably knows this.
 

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