Deadlands questions

[sfgiants]

Hey all. After thumbing through Deadlands at a local store I had a few questions. There seems to be a lot of versions available... Can anyone give me a synopsis of what are the options? Is the d20 version any good? I am looking for some wild west gunslinging type of action. Which version suits this the best? Thanks in advance for your help

 

[Fate Lawson]

If you're looking for just straight d20 gunslinging Wild West action without the baggage of alternate history and magic mumbo-jumbo then I would suggest


Sidewinder: Recoiled

which you can find as a PDF at these sites

E23

Paizo

Your Games Now

or in Softcover from Green Ronin at

Green Ronin


Of course I might be a tad bit biased.

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

Being a Deadlands veteran, I can honestly say avoid the d20 version like the plague that it is. Pinnacle/Great White even came out and admitted it was thrown together simply to try and cash in on the d20 blitz when 3e came out.

I ran Classic Deadlands for several years, and had a blast, although in retrospect the mechanics of the system could be rather klunky, especially Hucksters as they required a decent knowledge of poker hands and referencing spell descriptions to see how effective a spell was based on your poker hand. Other mechanics, like action cards for initiative and shamanist spell-casting, can be a little quirky at first, but most players in the games I ran got the hang of it pretty quickly.

I've only played the Savage Worlds version (Deadlands Reloaded) once, but since Savage Worlds is a pretty good system that might be your best bet if just getting into the game. It's a much more streamlined version of the Classic Deadlands system, which helps.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I agree with Donovan - I'm a huge D20 fan and a big deadlands fan - but the two things did not combine well IMO.


Have got the Savage Worlds version but not actually run it. It does look like fun, but I'd probably run the classic version if I wanted to play - as I am very familiar with it. For that I needed the Deadlands book and the Savage Worlds core book.


The gamey elements our group liked in classic (Pinacle) deadlands were the poker chips, cards and all manner of dice - sounds silly, but those things added to it for us. Not quite sure why.

On the downsides, it can be clunky and there are some rather unclear or badly written rules in there.

If you're interested, here's a listing of Classic Deadlands products.

http://www.highprogrammer.com/alan/gaming/deadlands/catalog/index.html

All you need to play is items 1100 and 1101 - the Players and Gamesmasters guides to Deadlands.

Generally I've noticed the pinacle books are often very cheap second hand. If you have the budget, I'd pick up the players guide and see if it appeals to you.

 

[smootrk]

I have played in a D20 version of Deadlands, and I had a blast. I had no knowledge of the alternate rules systems, so D20 seemed pretty intuitive to me, and for our group which has had no desire to learn new systems to play games, it worked for us.

Is it playable, Yes.
Did we have fun, Yes.
Were there clunky areas, Yes, but did not stop us from working with it.
Would I play the alternate rules, maybe.

 

[Twowolves]

Have got the Savage Worlds version but not actually run it. It does look like fun, but I'd probably run the classic version if I wanted to play - as I am very familiar with it. For that I needed the Deadlands book and the Savage Worlds core book.


The gamey elements our group liked in classic (Pinacle) deadlands were the poker chips, cards and all manner of dice - sounds silly, but those things added to it for us. Not quite sure why.

On the downsides, it can be clunky and there are some rather unclear or badly written rules in there.

The Savage Worlds version is Deadlands: Reloaded. It is not clunky at all, and it still retains the fiddly bits; the poker chips, the dice (only not so many at once) and the poker hands. I have not run this version, but did run and play the Classic version, and I feel the streamlined new version captures the feel excellently without the clunky issues with the older rules (like varying target numbers, multiple dice, multiple actions/initiative draws etc etc). They even added in a card/poker based "high noon" style duel system. Muy Bueno!

 

[countgray]

Options for Deadlands

I happen to be playing in a Deadlands game currently. We are using the original (revised) ruleset.

There are 4 different options for playing this game:

1) There's the original rules (it had 1 revision, but the revision was not major and you can use all materials for that rule set together, just be aware of a handful of minor rules tweaks between the 1st and 2nd editions.) This is the version our group is using. We like it. It has by far the most available supplements, which are mostly out of print, but which you can find in used bookstores for cheap prices. You can also buy PDF downloads for all the books right here at the ENworld store, so all the books are easily available to you.

2) There's the d20 version of the rules.

3) There is a GURPs version of the rules, they even have 4 GURPS supplements for Deadlands

4) There's a brand new, in-print version of Deadlands called Deadlands Reloaded using the Savage Worlds rules set. I don't know anything about the Savage Worlds System, but it has been favorably reviewed by a lot of people. Here is a link to a review: Savage Worlds system review on RPG.net It might be a very cool system, maybe worth a look.

My recommendation is to go with the original rules. They are not too hard to learn. They are a lot of fun and they have a lot of flavor that suits the game.

The original rules use dice, cards and poker chips. Most "checks" are resolved by rolling dice to generate a target number. Occasionally you draw cards (from any regular poker deck with jokers), which are used as a feature of character generation and some aspects of combat. (The red and black jokers have special effects, kind of like critical hits and misses). Poker chips are given as experience points and can be used to buy new features for your character, or can be spent like "action points" for rerolls and the like.

The original rules are not hard to learn, they lend a wonderful feel to the game, and while I agree they may be a little klunky some times, my group has all said that they have enjoyed learning and using the rules, we all agree it is a lot of fun.

I would only go with the Gurps or D20 versions if you like those rules and don't want to try a new system. The

But beyond the rules, the game offers a great deal of fun just based off the setting. The sourcebooks have a ton of ideas for adventures, and it is a richly detailed world. You might describe it as the "Wild Wild West" meets "Jonah Hex" meets "Gunsmoke" meets "Brisco County Jr." with a heaping helping of undead, indian magic, and supernatural monsters thrown in.

Some of the interesting character classes include gunslingers, hucksters (card magicians), mad scientists, preachers (basically clerics), voodoo doctors, shamans, and just about any kind of profession or archetype that you can think of from the old west.

I don't think it really matters what system you choose, as I think you will have fun regardless. The roleplaying potential is awesome, and it is really fun to get into character for this game. Practically everyone in my group has adopted some kind of accent, whether a southern drawl, an irish brogue, or a Lousiana creole lilt, and it really helps set a sense of place and time.

Whatever you choose, you are in for a treat. Good luck and good gaming!

 

[Gothmog]

I'm a longtime Deadlands fan- I picked it up in 1996, and have been a devoted player and GM for it ever since.

Deadlands is basically the American Old West, but with supernatural events thrown in liberally. The Civil War is still raging in the 1870s, although both sides have reached a stalemate. The Souix Nations have successfully resisted integration by the USA and CSA, and are their own power, and the small Mormon nation of Deseret houses many of the world's mad scientists.

Four versions of the game were produced: Deadlands Classic (1996-2002 or so), Deadlands d20 (2002-2003), GURPS Deadlands, and Savage Worlds Deadlands Reloaded (2005-now). I've never tried the GURPS Deadlands version, so I can't say much about it. Deadlands Classic is a wonderful game and system- it used poker chips, cards (both for initiative and hexslinging), and dice. Classic had 40 or so books come out for it over its run, and I own and have read every one of them- there isn't a stinker in the bunch. The only downside to Classic is that its hard to find books for it (PDFs are still available). I ran 4 campaigns over the years with Deadlands Classic (probably about 200 adventures total), and we always had a blast with it.

Then there was D20 Deadlands, which took everything cool, interesting, and unique about Deadlands, and got rid of it for the blandness of D20- basically turning it into D&D with some Deadlands themes. I never ran D20 Deadlands, but I played it a few times with a guy who refused to play or run anything but D20 stuff, and D20 Deadlands is a pale mockery of Deadlands Classic. It loses all the flavor, charm, and cool bits of Deadlands Classic to the rules drudgery of D20. It plays like D&D with guns, and classes that are renamed and slightly tweaked versions of existing D&D classes. Even the same spells are taken out of the PHB, which is completely the wrong feel for magic in Deadlands. The suckage of D20 Deadlands is immense. You'll see a lot of Deadlands D20 stuff sitting on used bookshelves of gamestores- because it sucks. Avoid it at all costs.

Savage Worlds Deadlands is just as fun as the Classic version, but the rules are easier to manage and it has much quicker prep time. SW is a streamlined, but still highly customizable version of the Classic Deadlands rules, but SW can be applied to any genre or type of game- its truly a universal system. Preptime for a SW game is about 1/10th that of a D20 game, it also plays faster and smoother, focusing on action and the adventure rather than rules mastery. I love SW- its become my group's system of choice for whatever game we play. We've used SW for Deadlands Reloaded, a home conversion of Deadlands: Hell on Earth (post apocalyptic), Call of Cthulhu, pulp adventure, psychological/supernatural horror (kinda like Silent Hill or Kult), Pirates of the Spanish Main, Star Wars, Fading Suns, Soloman Kane, hard sci-fi (more like Transhuman Space), and so on. Deadlands Reloaded is basically a reincarnated version of Deadlands Classic, with all the cool bits still there, and most importantly, it got its soul back! I've run about 20 adventures using SW Deadlands Reloaded, and its every bit as fun to play as Classic, the books are easier to find, and the Savage Worlds core book is only $10 now! Can't beat that.

So my advice is either dig up some copies of Deadlands Classic, or give Savage Worlds a try for Deadlands. You won't be sorry.

 

[scourger]

On topic, I say get Deadlands Reloaded and run it with Savage Worlds. We played classic DL in our group as well as DL: Hell on Earth (same basic system). Those were fun but seemed a little complicated to run (I was not the Marshal). I have run SW and it is a dream to bring to the table. I have an old Boot Hill module that I am itching to run with SW & maybe DLR. SW is such an easy, intuitive system that I think it will really let me focus on the fun of storytelling again.

Off topic, other western games were a little less satisfying to me. I ran Spellslinger briefly and read DL d20 as well as Sidewinder (the latter is written in a great style and worth reading for fun). The issue is that the games can start to feel like Wild West D&D. I do think a d20 western game could be fun with the magic removed, either straight out of the PH or with the optional generic classes from Unearthed Arcana with firearms added from the DMG. Aces & Eights is another on I picked up, but the rules leave me cold (basically HackMaster engine). A&8 is very detailed, though. Another "variant West" but without magic.

Have fun with Deadlands.

 

[sfgiants]

So what would I need for the Deadlands reloaded? Do I need some Savage Worlds books? Thanks for all the input. Very helpful