Dealing with unthankful players

[Owain]

Hi Enworld (first poster here),

I have been DMing this 3.0 group for 1 year and the process is slowly burning me out. I'm a DM that prepares a lot for the sessions. I usually take about twice as long as we actually play (which I consider a lot). We play in my self-created homebrew world and I write my own adventures. I invest a lot of time in our wiki which details the world and it's NPCs and I create side stories that involve the player character's backgrounds. With three of the players, everything is fine. I like them, they like my DMing style, they enjoy the game and give me the feeling that they're generally appreciative.

The two other players constantly give me the feeling that they take everything that happens in the game for granted. Whereas the other players accept my rulings and generally respect me, these two guys always criticise, as if nothing I prepared was ever good enough for them. Slowly, my table has shifted towards a 'DM vs. players' atmosphere since these two are the most vigorous players and often control the mood. I really hate that atmosphere and it's something I have never had with other groups. These two dislike the pace of the game, complain that the monsters are too tough (although no character has ever died or even came close), they don't have enough magic gear, I am unfair and always rule against the group when something in the RAW is unclear and that generally their expectations aren't met. I try to be a DM that doesn't rule over the players. I am sometimes convinced that something I ruled was wrong and then I change course. But what I really miss is some respect for the work I invest. Just something like "Thanks, the last session was really cool" instead of a "yeah, that sucked again. Aw well, let's see what he'll be dragging us through next time" (not spoken out directly, of course).

This is really frustrating me. Should I just end the campaign? That would be like giving up for me. Also, I couldn't throw these players out, as they are friends.

I'd be really thankful for your recommendations on how to go from here. Maybe someone has had similar experiences? Cheers,

Owain.

 

[Crothian]

If they are friends talk to them iout of game about this. Maybe they don't realize the work you put into this. Maybe they just aren't seeing things from your perspective. Hopefully talking it out can fix the problem for everyone.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Friends don't always make the best players, not if their style is incompatible with yours. It should be possible to cut them loose, without it affecting the friendship, by being upfront and mature* about the whole thing. If that's not a good option for you, then say to the two what you just said here.

EDIT: *Alternatively you can tell the two the campaign has ended and then continue it secretly with the three good players. That's what we did and it worked great!

 

[Bumbles]

I'd be really thankful for your recommendations on how to go from here. Maybe someone has had similar experiences?

Do not feel ashamed because you can't handle everything to the satisfaction of others around you. They may or may not try to make you feel that way, but if they do, it's their problem not yours.

Taking a break, quitting, it's all reasonable behavior. There's nothing wrong with saying no.

Though I would suggest you do it on a group scale, rather than an individual one if it's a longer-term problem, and you are concerned about your ability to resolve the conflict with your friends. People are less inclined to argue with "Ok, I've got to stop this for a while" than "I don't want you around any more" in my experience, and it seems you want to avoid that issue. Which is fine, it's not going to make you something shameful to do so. That might well be the best solution for you.

 

[malkav666]

I would talk to them out of game. Invite them over together, or singly on a non game night and sit them down, and let them no that hey are hurting your feelings/pissing you off (or whatever it is your feeling raw about).

I have been playing with the same folks for about 2 decades and sometimes folks just get burnt out. I am the primary DM for our group and I also invest a lot of time in world building and scenario writing. Sometimes it does not go as I would hope.

What I tend to do with players in my group who criticize my game is bring the session to a good stopping place and let them know that its their turn to run for the next several sessions, and I make them run for a bit. I don't try and trash their games or anything that petty. I just make them run until they start to burn out. And they will burn out. All DMs have burnout days. And when I catch them on that burn out day I pull them aside at the end of the session and ask them if they would like for me to run again the next session. When they say "yes", I ask them to afford me the same respect that you gave to them when they were running.

I have found over the years that my players don't really complain all that much anymore. If they don't like the way a story is going they try and change it through good roleplay, or if they don't feel like they are getting enough loot, they become quite mercanary in game. But they really don't complain all that much. Because they don't want to have to be in the DM seat for a long time.

So honestly the TLDR version is, talk to the players in private, and get them to DM a little, it will change their perspective.


love,

malkav

 

[jbear]

I had conflict with my players for the first time last session.

I had prepared 3 simultaneous skill challenges al typed up in beautiful font and with images of indiana Jones fleeing the giant ball of stone and Rocky Balboa at the top of the steps etc. I also gave them a page detailing the general survival rules/hazards of the temple where the skill challenges occured.

I was sure it was gong to be a very exciting, thrilling evening for everyone, and I had spent hours preparing ths special climatic treat for my players

It was tense from the beginning because everyone knew their PC's lives were on the line. It was the first time I had run a skill challenge so transparently. And as the infighting began and the tension increased creeping into the personal terrain, I realised I had screwed up.

Everyone went home grumbling, avoiding eye-contact. And all that despite the fact that they had been successful despite the odds stacked against them.

I felt horrible. Like a total failure.

The next day the sniping continued, and I heard that I was being accused of bias/favouritism by 3 of my players. That turned my crummy feeling into downright blazing fury.

I don't mind if my players let me know they thought something I did was crap or boring... but accusing me of FAVOURITISM!!!!!!! That is going too far!

I let them know I was very annoyed but wisely we didn't talk it out till tempers were cooled today.

I expressed my hurt at the accusation. I also shared my feelings of failure, because my main goal is to make everyone have a fantastic time (literally). I think it was very positive to express our feelings and now the negativity has been erased. I guess you need to know where they are coming from, and they need to take into account where you are coming from. Then you need to find a middle road where everyone is comfortable, including yourself.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Hold on a second. I think there's a few key points here. There are some specifics in your post:

These two dislike the pace of the game, complain that the monsters are too tough (although no character has ever died or even came close), they don't have enough magic gear, I am unfair and always rule against the group when something in the RAW is unclear and that generally their expectations aren't met.

You have, unless I really miss my guess, a couple of power gamers in your group. These sorts of whines from players are actually DM Gold. (Few recognize it.) They come back week after week right? They're trying to beat you personally. Not the game. They want to be the biggest, baddest a$$ in existence. You thwart their raison d'etre by being outside their desires.

Keep it up. Hit 'em harder. Make them suffer a little more.

You're doing fine kid.

 

[Hadrian the Builder]

I had some experiences similar to the OP. I solved it by telling my problem players I was burned out and asking if one of them would take over DMing for a while so I could play.

After they had a chance to sit in the "hotseat" the had a different appreciation for the challenges of DMing and I enjoyed having them at the table after their attitude change.

 

[Barcode]

Sounds like a style conflict. A classy player, when recognizing a style conflict, will politely thank the DM, but explain that they really aren't getting what they want out of the game. Maybe there's a round of compromise in both directions, where both parties make an attempt to come to common ground and still have fun.

Sounds to me like you don't have classy players. I'd tell them that you're not enjoying the game, and it's obvious they're not enjoying the game, so you think it would be best if they just didn't play any more. If that's impossible, put the game on hiatus for a couple of months and when you restart, reschedule it to a time you know that one or both of them won't be able to come. Chances are they won't put up much of a fuss if they don't like the game to start with.

If they are friends, don't do the "tell them it's ending but don't really". They always find out.

 

[Oryan77]

Take up heavy drinking and smoking. I have learned this will get rid of players that you don't want in the game. Or, it might get rid of good players too. But at least you'll look cool!

*Do not try this at home unless you are a trained professional. I in no way promote such bad habits to the inexperienced.*