D&D (2024) Dear Team WotC: Better Pact Magic Fixes

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Recharge when your hex target dies?
I did suggest that in a past thread. At the time I was considering a warlock with no spell slots, who had one use of hex, a bunch of at-will stuff, invocation granted spells, etc, but no actual spellcasting as in the phb, and they'd get back uses of spells by meeting conditions.

One way to go with that would be to make Hex at-will, and killing hex targets is the main way you get back uses of limited use abilities, with some having special conditions of their own, your patron spells have patron-appropriate conditions, etc. Basically a class where you reset with a long rest, more than recharge as such.
A wizard is an arcane spellcaster whose primary mechanical niche is spell casting.

So is a sorcerer.
So is a warlock. Including in this UA.
It not pedantry. You have 2 classes that do what you want. Let the warlock be something else.
WHy would you make the warlock into something it's never been? Even my ideas above would very much be a variant class not meant to replace the real warlock, probably with a different name.
Especially since they never cast arcane spells to begin with. They had their own list (admittedly a very similar one).
The only previous version of the warlock exists in a PHB with no arcane spell list, but is considered an arcane class by pretty much everyone.
This is all pedantry.
 

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mellored

Legend
WHy would you make the warlock into something it's never been? Even my ideas above would very much be a variant class not meant to replace the real warlock, probably with a different name.
Does your definition of a "mage" include casting a few high level spells? Because we have 2 classes that do that.

Or can a "mage" be someone who casts a lot of lower level spells?
 



doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Do you think a warlock needs to include casting a few high level spells?

Or can it just casts a lot of lower level spells?
Ugh. Tell ya what, I’ll answer the question, and then I’d like to not continue this interaction.

Warlocks are full spellcasters. They get access to spells at the same level as wizards or any other full caster, and they get all the spell levels.
 

mellored

Legend
Ugh. Tell ya what, I’ll answer the question, and then I’d like to not continue this interaction.

Warlocks are full spellcasters. They get access to spells at the same level as wizards or any other full caster, and they get all the spell levels.
Well at least I understand you now.

But IMO, we have 2 classes that already do that. Both can recharge spell slots.

Also, it's a complete departure from the 3e warlock.

Maybe nake a "fiend baby" sorcerer subclass that lets you pick up eldrich blast and an invocation and that should play about the same.
 

TwoSix

Uncomfortably diegetic
You know, it sounds crazy at first blush, but there might be something to this. A lot of design space is unavailable because wizards (and sorcerers, and now warlocks) can use the entire Arcane list.

Not that the idea of a scholarly user of magic should be ditched, but the idea that such a scholar must be a Swiss Army knife of magic. Even wizard "specialists" are only half-heartedly specialized, they can still do everything.

As I said in another thread, the entire concept of the 1e Illusionist was destroyed by 2e school specialization, because the 1e Illusionist was forced to be sneaky. At least in 2e they couldn't get evocation spells - since 3e there's nothing stopping them from learning Fireball!

The sorcerer especially cries out for a tight, focused spell list, but I wouldn't mind something similar for wizards too. Different schools (meaning actual schools people learn from, not the "spell schools" we have now) of magic just plain teach things differently. Want to branch out into another school's way of doing things? Take a feat, or possibly even multiclass.
Believe me, I've been arguing for specialized casters as a replacement for wizards for at least 15 years. It ain't gonna happen in mainstream D&D.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Well at least I understand you now.

But IMO, we have 2 classes that already do that. Both can recharge spell slots.
3. Bards use the arcane list. I don’t understand what point it is that you seem to think is so obvious that you don’t need to actually state it.

Now, if they swapped the Bard and Warlock, and gave the warlock expertise, and made it not have spell slots at all, just at-will and 1/day invocations and base features, I’d be less annoyed than this bland nonsense they’ve shown us.
Also, it's a complete departure from the 3e warlock.
I mean, we’re almost 20 years too late for worrying about continuity with the 3e warlock. And the current proposed change is just as much a departure. More, I’d say, because at least the 2014 warlock works very differently from traditional casters, rather than a little different.

Maybe nake a "fiend baby" sorcerer subclass that lets you pick up eldrich blast and an invocation and that should play about the same.
No, it won’t. It will play like a sorcerer.
 

mellored

Legend
3. Bards use the arcane list.
Right.
I don’t understand what point it is that you seem to think is so obvious that you don’t need to actually state it.
I would rather have a different class than yet another arcane caster.

The arcane spell list is not interesting enough to need 4 classes using it. (Or even 3 for that matter, but that seems like an even more futile battle).
Now, if they swapped the Bard and Warlock, and gave the warlock expertise, and made it not have spell slots at all, just at-will and 1/day invocations and base features, I’d be less annoyed than this bland nonsense they’ve shown us.
IMO
Wizards get slots.
Sorcerers get spell points.
Bards get scaling slots.
Warlocks get invocations only.
No, it won’t. It will play like a sorcerer.
Just trade up your lower level slots for higher ones. Adds up to about the same.

I.e. at level 11, a sorcerer can have 6 level 5 slots.
 


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