Dear WotC - You suck at names.

[Gentlegamer]

WotC's cromulent ability for naming will embiggen the game and all of its players.

 

[jasin]

I stand corrected.

Tolkien chose poorly in his choice of sources.

As hip as it might seem to belittle the likes of Tolkien, Leiber, Moorcock or Vance while giving a thumb up to the sacredcowburger, overdoing it just makes you looks silly.

What would be a good choice of sources, if Norse myth isn't? Can you list a couple of names that you think are cool, and which represent what you'd like to see in D&D?

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

As hip as it might seem to belittle the likes of Tolkien, Leiber, Moorcock or Vance while giving a thumb up to the sacredcowburger, overdoing it just makes you looks silly.

What would be a good choice of sources, if Norse myth isn't? Can you list a couple of names that you think are cool, and which represent what you'd like to see in D&D?

Tee hee. Cute, but I thought Tolkien was dry and unreadable at the age where fantasy and D&D seem like the coolest things on earth, and each time I pick them up since. I also don't remember mentioning Leiber (whom I enjoy a great deal), Moorcock (whom I have sadly read little of), or Vance (whom I consider a linguistic romp slightly moreso than a story), though your efforts at painting me as denigrating the four authors everybody has to talk about when discussing D&D is appreciated.

My call? Something pronounceable, linguistically tied to other names of its type, and evocative. Considering the effort Tolkien spent on the Elven languages, not just stealing whole cloth from the Norse would have been appreciated. Anything more will require discussion of my consulting fees, and this isn't the right forum.

 

[jasin]

Tee hee. Cute, but I thought Tolkien was dry and unreadable at the age where fantasy and D&D seem like the coolest things on earth, and each time I pick them up since. I also don't remember mentioning Leiber (whom I enjoy a great deal), Moorcock (whom I have sadly read little of), or Vance (whom I consider a linguistic romp slightly moreso than a story), though your efforts at painting me as denigrating the four authors everybody has to talk about when discussing D&D is appreciated.

The mention of Leiber, Moorcock and Vance was supposed to be a general comment, but it came out as if I was addressing it to you. I apologize for that.

My call? Something pronounceable, linguistically tied to other names of its type, and evocative. Considering the effort Tolkien spent on the Elven languages, not just stealing whole cloth from the Norse would have been appreciated. Anything more will require discussion of my consulting fees, and this isn't the right forum.

Quite right, it isn't the right forum for discussing your consulting fees. This is the forum for discussing D&D, 4E in particular, and names in 4E in particular. Thinking you, unlike everyone else here, should be paid for your opinions on the subject is incredibly pompous.

 

[Baduin]

My call? Something pronounceable, linguistically tied to other names of its type, and evocative.

Your wish is granted! My propositions:

Starkness
Tormance
Branchspell
Alppain
Poolingdred
Ifdawn Marest
Lusion Plain
Sant
Wombflash Forest
Muspel
Sinking Sea
Swaylone's Island
Teargeld
Matterplay
Threal
Lichstorm
Sarclash
Adage
Mornstab Pass

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Voyage_to_Arcturus

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

The mention of Leiber, Moorcock and Vance was supposed to be a general comment, but it came out as if I was addressing it to you. I apologize for that.

's groovy. There's a tendency to lump folks together on the internet...they're always doing that.

Quite right, it isn't the right forum for discussing your consulting fees. This is the forum for discussing D&D, 4E in particular, and names in 4E in particular.

Then how the hell did we get to arguing about what Tolkien named his dwarves? That's before D&D ever came out, let alone 4th edition. I stated my dislike for the names of Tolkien's dwarves from the Hobbit - and wasn't the first, I might add - and this somehow caused a mammoth implosion in which all other possible avenues in this thread were diverted into the great anti-intellectual void I had become in the minds of others.

Thinking you, unlike everyone else here, should be paid for your opinions on the subject is incredibly pompous.

Well, my opinions are free. Composing a dwarven language with enough root syllables and naming rules to put together a list of a dozen or so dwarvish names that I personally prefer to Tolkien's is a lot to ask while I'm at work, and I'd need to make a little coin off that. Besides, it really doesn't matter what names I put out there, one can easily just type the words "I prefer Tolkien's" and wheeee, they win internets! Rather than bother sustaining the issue, I tried to put it to bed. You're welcome to think of me as you wish - I've never lost a lick of sleep over the internet and won't start now - but my time isn't free.

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

Your wish is granted! My propositions:

Starkness
Tormance
Branchspell
Alppain
Poolingdred
Ifdawn Marest
Lusion Plain
Sant
Wombflash Forest
Muspel
Sinking Sea
Swaylone's Island
Teargeld
Matterplay
Threal
Lichstorm
Sarclash
Adage
Mornstab Pass

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Voyage_to_Arcturus

That list really runs the gamut for me; Sinking Sea, Threal, Mornstab Pass, and Sant are all fine, Muspel puts me a little in mind of Norse myth (again) and is so-so. I really like Ifdawn Marest (I'd spell it differently to player-proof it, but I like two-word fantasy place names). The rest have too much real English in them for me.

Sounds like a curious read, though.

 

[jasin]

Then how the hell did we get to arguing about what Tolkien named his dwarves?

Because Tolkien's fantasy naming conventions and their quality are relevant to a discussion 4E fantasy naming conventions and their quality, what with both being the same thing: fantasy naming conventions.

Well, my opinions are free. Composing a dwarven language with enough root syllables and naming rules to put together a list of a dozen or so dwarvish names that I personally prefer to Tolkien's is a lot to ask while I'm at work, and I'd need to make a little coin off that.

Oh, come off it. It's a big jump from "can you list a couple of names" to "composing a dwarven language with enough root syllables and naming rules to put together a list of a dozen or so dwarvish names".

Baduin didn't get paid for the list of names he likes, and I hardly expect his life and career to suffer for all the time he invested in compiling it.

Besides, it really doesn't matter what names I put out there, one can easily just type the words "I prefer Tolkien's" and wheeee, they win internets!

Much like you did, with your dismissive comments on Tolkien's names? Well, yes, one could, but that doesn't really generate much constructive discussion, so the default assumption is (or should be) that one won't.

Rather than bother sustaining the issue, I tried to put it to bed.

Again, come off it. Dismissively criticizing Tolkien's choice of names and then his choice of Norse mythology as a source in a D&D forum is more akin to banging with a ladle on an empty pot than putting anything to bed. You must be aware of that.

So I hoped you stirred the pot because you had something interesting to share; a source of fantasy names superior to Norse mythology, perhaps. But my impression is that all you had to share is how you're more discerning than the average D&D/fantasy fan because getting all googly eyed over Tolkien is beneath you.

Edit: Or perhaps not? I wrote the above paragraph before seeing your reply to Baduin. That was certainly more useful than "Tolkien's dwarf names suck." -- "What!? They're old Norse dwarf names!" -- "Oh yeah? Well, old Norse dwarf names suck." -- "So what names don't suck?" -- "Pay me to find out."

 

[Ruin Explorer]

to share; a source of fantasy names superior to Norse mythology, perhaps. But my impression is that all you had to share is how you're more discerning than the average D&D/fantasy fan because getting all googly eyed over Tolkien is beneath you.

You yourself seem to be under some sort of crazy misunderstanding that Tolkien though "I need some fantasy names!" and then though, like, at random "OOOOH NORSE!". I mean what? Tolkien chose Norse names because his setting was "maximum white people", which is to say Northern European mythology (minus the Celts).*

For a setting which isn't Ultra-Denmark or whatever, Norse names do rather, well, suck. They're moderately hard to pronounce and spell (hence Tolkien's anglicizations), they sound kinda dorky, on the whole, particularly to the modern mind, and they're very specific to a culture.

Sources of names, wise, well, here's a good source: http://www.gaminggeeks.org/Resources/KateMonk/

Every culture has names suitable for fantasy. Tolkien was a linguist, not a great name-creator. He had very specific ideas about what he wanted, and I'm afraid that disliking his names and general naming style is not an "outre" or "psuedish" position, but a pretty normal one. I don't know many people who actively LIKE the way Tolkien named his characters/places.

Emerald Frost sucks very hard, though, whatever you think of Tolkien.

* = Not calling Tolkien a racist nor about to get in any debates on whether Hitler would have loved LotR or equally stupid nonsense, just sayin' is all, his setting was much "narrower" than most current Fantasy settings, much more about a specific culture and it's myths, rather than blending myths/cultures, as most authors do, or creating something entirely fantastical.

 

[RFisher]

More examples of one person's idea of "good names" aren't going to get us anywhere. While it's true that most of our conversations boil down to differences in preferences or differences in how our brains work, there's usually enough commonalities to build a discussion on. Here you've got nothing. I could pull ten names from just about any source & not two people here will agree on which are "good" & which are "bad". Each person is a little faction of his own. There's not even enough commonalties for the humor label to work.

Best to just look beyond the names & substitute the ones that are--for you--the worst offenders.