Death of characters?

[Alek]

Oh yeah I ment to respond to Cael too.

Thats all well and good, but all it takes to reverse it is a Wish spell and a properly understanding GM (read: dead characters best friends player). I'd say one day tops with the levels of characters running around here...heh

Anyways, about the clone spell, I think you can only have one running around, as it is their soul animating it. As per http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm

 

[Bhryn]

So really it's boiling down to:

• If you do die, have a good reason for it (ie: a culmulative fight after seven months of back and forth storyline, etc etc)
  
  
• If you do die, don't spring back to life immediately. Fact: After death, the soul will be taken to wherever it is the soul is destined.
  
  Example: Elf dies. Elf's soul is taken to Arvandor. Elves are promised supreme happiness in return for their good deeds and well lived life. To come BACK from Arvandor is considered a mortal sin, something no elf would willingly do. So to coax a soul back would take a lot of time and effort... let alone coming up with a good reason as to WHY they'd want to return...
  
  
• The possibility of ressurection is very real. Why else do they have the 'Ressurection' spell? Decoration? Mortals don't have the distinct difficulty that outsiders do, be aware that deity intercession is needed. Usually more attainable if you're well in there with your particular god... *wink wink*
  
  
• Think about what effects death would have had on the other characters - it's not something just easily shrugged off.
  
  Example 1: The Elf in the above scenario is ressurected. The Elf has been removed from his lifetime reward of eternal happiness. No doubt, he'll be disorientated, angry and confused. For a long time, he'll be haunted by the memory of something he's not sure he'll ever get back again.
  
  Example 2: A neutral character, say a human, has been sent to one of the Hells after death. Perhaps because he was leaning more towards ill deeds in his life. Upon returning to life, his mind is filled with the horrors he would have experienced in the Hells. So he can either:
  a: become slightly 'unbalanced' from the mental anguish
  b: swear to dedicate his life to good and work harder at achieving a slot somewhere nicer.
  c: decide he likes that leather, blood, spike through brain scenario that is Hell and take up a pact with the creatures there...

It comes down to how well the death is dealt with. Of course there is Freedom of Destiny, and unless you have -specifically- agreed with another player that 'character x' is due to die, then they won't. That simple.

Speaking of dead characters - I'm not without my fair share of dead characters and boy, do I still miss them. Sigh

B xxx

 

[Itzquahpilli]

I believe Bhryn has summed it up rather well.

And just a note, at least in 3.5, monks level 20 or above can still be raised despite being outsiders. Lucky for them...

 

[Sienna_Rose]

There have been some good points in here, and some raised hackles. Breathe. It's a game.
Yes, people die and come back - I agree that there should at least be a reason. Yes, it's free form, so, that means D&D rules do not have to be followed.
(for those who do like to follow them - True Res needs a 25, 000 gp gem in 3.5; Raise Dead needs a 5, 000 gp one)

What all this boils down to is:
We all have different playing styles, and, since this is free form, there are no actual *rules* (besides the CoC - since what we're discussing is more of storyline choice that doesn't actually impinge on those rules, I'm excluding mention beside this parenthetical one - and, if the return *does* violate CoC, that's a whole other discussion). Without rules of who can and can't come back, and how, of course we're going to have ideas that clash. Let's not get hackles up about them. Discussion is fine, let's keep in mind that we all have our own opinions.

In my own opinion, there should be a reason, and some method for characters to come back. I have a character would flat out refuse to return - remember, resurection spells do not always work. If you have a char who *did* die, they can stay dead even if someone has cast a rez.
And, as Bhryn pointed out, there should be reprecutions. What of the Elf who had a glimpse of the afterlife? The wife finally reunited with her husband who preceded her in death? etc. . .

Again, this is all opinion. Noone can tell anyone else how to play, nor what to do on their storylines (unless it violates CoC - which is a different discussion). I do think that having a good reason behind the return, taking some time to work the return into a story can add a good deal to the role play. That's just me.

 

[Sir Dieterich]

Well, first of all, I wasn't talking about Trena... And second of all I do have to say that Sir D died once and was resurrected. Normally he would stay dead because thats who he is, but dying the day after your wedding is just unacceptable. And I didn't have to pay anything because he is best friends with Sky.

I know about the whole CoC rules, but I mean come on, this is just getting rediculous.

 

[Toxicsyn]

A couple of notes on char deaths and resurrections

In a controlled FOD environment, Buffy can wake up this morning, go get her cup of tea, talk shop, insult the new comer that just came in, get into a fight, die horribly by sharp pointy things, suddenly see the light, realize oh yeah i never finished my cup of tea and flirt with that cute guy, return from the dead, and walk back in to have another refill for her cup of tea and probably pick up the cute guy despite the bloodstains and gore (which is of course optional for Buffy thanks to niffty clean cantrips). That in a nut shell is a horrible reason why to come back, but it happens.

If it bothers you so much, it also bothers me why the Boss monster i just killed in WoW keeps coming back to life a few minutes later. But i live with it, kill him again and get more loot or i don't go back to that boss (despite the fact i need new shoulder pads of magical might +12).

and another thing i like to add, its okay to be radical and not follow D&D rules despite being in a D&D setting. Heck, use Rift/Ars Magica/World of Darkness or whatever your imagination can think of. When someone said, i came back because my god gave me a IOU, in a fantasy world.. its quite possible..so have a cup of tea

 

[Ruthia]

hhmmm...FoD, Dead characters brought back to life..... Brings back a few unpleasant memories. Do you know how many times I've been called a god moder because I let my character avoid something that would have otherwise killed them? Or because once they had gotten beaten baddly enough they turned tail and ran to save their own lives? To many to count unfortantly. One thing I would like to point out is that many of us have characters with specific storylines in place at the moment. Yes maye we let outside forces influence the direction but in the end it comes down to what we're trying to get or characters to finsih. In my own case, Ruthia's main story has been going for five plus years now and I'm JUST starting to see what the end may look like. After investing five years into character developement of course I'm not going to let her die easy! Now yes I do have characters who have died. Three in fact. And yes I have left one dead permently. The other two were just recently brought back but with changes not only to their looks but to their personalities to make for a more intresting twist to them. And the one had been dead a year, the other six months.


*rereads the rest of the thread and goes wide eyed*

Hey now! I go to bed and you guys kill off Keon????? *Stands back and watches as Ramoth goes into angery pissed off dragon mode and starts attacking everyone.*

 

[Magi_Trelian]

As others have said, no one needs to follow D&D rules so quoting spell descriptions at people is not really that important.

To simplify even further: the debate is over how realistic to play death.

Some people care about the excitement and the variety and keeping the story going, so death is just another page that's easily turned. Why should I stop playing a fun char just because some idiot picked a fight and I couldn't get out of it?

Some people care about the grit and the realism and the depth of emotion, so death ends the book unless someone goes to the great trouble of writing a sequel. Why fight, why defend, why mourn, why bother if everyone comes back so easily?

D&D and other gaming systems have rules about resurrection and death to add realism, to make it important when your char dies, so that people will fight as if it mattered. Even video games don't give you infinite lives (unless you use the cheat codes ).

The general recommedation is when a fight starts, PM each other and agree how far you intend to take it. If you don't want your char to die, then don't die? Or make the resurrection difficult and important? But no one has the right to say that if your char dies, it can't come back, regardless of outsiders, soul gems, whatever. So far this thread is stating points of view, but please do try to keep from openly denigating others.

Once it clears the CoC, everyone is playing by their own gaming rules. You do have the right not to play with people whose rules are too different from yours, and/or to try to convert them to your point of view, but not to say they're wrong to play that way.

 

[Lince'sa]

it tried to post my message twice. so this one doesn't count.

 

[Lince'sa]

First of all lets get back to the IMPORTANT part of the ORIGINAL POST... l LOVE CAKE! there, that being said.
we ahve this to keep in mind, if you res someone in the confines of the tavern setting, you are confined to the rules of D&D set forth as it is NOT truely free form it's a restricted setting. so as much as I want to wield the power of the force and throw Fallion's Fabulous fireball around to cook everyone's food instantaniously, I can't. Fallion is not an oerth native. sad, I know. but I can't play an oerth drow, I can't play a dragonling (and describe myself as such) I can't bring my large pet gorrilla into the tavern because Bobo would eat all the nanners. I can't pray to off world gods for my granted clerical abilities, becase they hold no power in the tavern. I belive the only "room with no rules" is bazzar, and if you want to "bizzar" things (pun intended), please atleast drag their lifeless corse there to do it. then you can not only resurect him, you can clone him 1000 times and we never have to have this discussion again. as long as the 1000 clones stay in the bazzar, otherwise they are subject to cloing rules oof D&D and have to seek eachtoher out in a quest to destroy one another.

In closing, it IS Freedom of Destiny, it IS freeform role-playing, but in the tavern, there are limits. you are subject to the rules of law and magic set for greyhawk. and Siani, if you're watching and I'm wrong, feel free to slap Gabe : )

Questions comments, attacks, plot holes, and such regarding this post are expected and welcomed. Anyone that feels I have personally attacked them or their views, I apologize now. it was not my intent. I merely state the facts as I have read them, and I may have a colored opinion, everyone (but me) knows I am n ot perfect (even though I really am).