Death Ward vs Shadow's Str Drain

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Just a correction...

A while back there was a post about Death Ward and someone indicated the spell doesn't work against a Shadow's strength-draining attack.

I just noticed that the Shadow entry specifies that the Str drain is a negative energy effect and lo and behold, Death Ward states that it blocks negative energy effects.

Too bad. I was gunna enjoy that Shadow encounter...

 

[hong]

Some undead ability draining attacks specify "negative energy", and some don't. It's all very confusing. Personally, I lean towards making them all negative energy attacks, but this has the side-effect of making death ward a must-have.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

What got me thinking about all this was the party asking to buy a wand of death ward. I thought about it for a minute and then put the kai-bosh on it as that would make undead pretty much useless ("Oh look, the entire party is protected by death ward. So much for that encounter.")

 

[shilsen]

What got me thinking about all this was the party asking to buy a wand of death ward. I thought about it for a minute and then put the kai-bosh on it as that would make undead pretty much useless ("Oh look, the entire party is protected by death ward. So much for that encounter.")

Don't forget that since the spell is going to last only 7 minutes if cast from a wand (assuming minimum caster level), the PCs would have to be forewarned about meeting undead in the very near future, in order to benefit from it.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Or just keep using charges...

 

[hong]

Or just keep using charges...

In itself, there's nothing wrong with that; it's all about using up the party's resources, and ability points and wand charges are both resources. It comes down to whether you consider wand charges to be too cheap a cost.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Two things: first, a wand of deathward is significantly more expensive than a wand of fireballs. At that price, it ought to do something impressive.

Second, it in no way makes undead useless--even with the interpretation that all ability drain and damage from undead is negative energy. It may make wraiths, shadows, and specters useless, but they're not supposed to be a serious challenge by the time that the PCs can afford that kind of a wand anyway. The high HD zombies and skeletons, ghouls, ghasts, ghosts, vampires, liches, nightwalkers, nightcrawlers, etc are just as dangerous as they ever were. (Vampires suffer a little bit, but by high levels, a vampire's energy drain is the least of your worries--its class based abilities are much more significant and deadly).

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Well, the price of the wand is shared amongst the entire party so that's not a problem for them at all.

As for "interpretation" of death ward's effects, I dunno what you mean. It's clearly stated in the spell and the monsters in question that negative energy effects are negated. Pretty clear cut to me.

Sure, some undead still pose a challenge. But a lot of the interesting monsters become a joke. Anyhoo, I'm not saying everyone should prohibit a wand of death ward. I know it won't be showing up in our games though (unless it has limited charges remaining).

 

[Mouseferatu]

My suggestion would be, let them buy the wand. Let them have an easy time with an undead encounter or two.

And then have an intelligent ghost realize what they've got, sneak in ethereally while they're asleep, and steal the sucker with its telekinesis power. (Alternatively, just have a ghostly spellcaster hit them with dispel magic right before attacking.)

PCs who make a habit of using a specific item every time they encounter a similar situation need to be prepared for villains to take steps to counter those tactics.

 

[Majere]

Other side of the coin
Without deathward supposedly low CR encounters become instant death jokes.

DM: Ok, so in the suprize round 8 shadows come out of the floor and take one attack, against your ac of 14.
DM: ok only 4 hits so that is 4d6 str loss for.. 14 points.
Player: I only have 12 str
DM: Ok in the suprize round you die permanantly, and will rise as a shadow in d4 rounds
Player: !!???!
DM: But your level 20, this is only an EL9. Sorry

Really
Stat point loss is SOOOOOOOOOO much more lethal than anything else in the game. More than HP loss, more than level drain, more than save or die (if you work at your saves).
8 Shadows (EL 9) will kill almost any mage (or cleric if you ar not combat orientated) in the suprize round (incorporeal, can come out the walls). Other low level undead are the same.
8 Alips (EL9) will instantly kills most fighters or mages.
8 wraiths (EL11) will kills almost anyone.
All of the above are incorporeal and intellegant enough that they can get the suprize round and work together to target one party member.

I house ruled death ward up to 10 minutes per level, because I (as a high level player) would simply refuse to party outside of the 15 minutes a day you can keep deathward up.

Really, this spell is underpowered, not over powered. Players have to learn the spell, know when to cast it, and then it gives protection for a short time. And without it, low EL combat can turn into TPKs.

Majere