DeathWatch: Why is it evil?

[Li Shenron]

We always thought the spell's uses were most ofter good: to look for survivors after a battle for instance, or to keep an eye when it's time to heal a comrade...

 

[Paxr0mana]

True, it all really depends how you use it. If you for instance used the spell to find survivors after a battle so that you could rescue them, then it's good.
If you use it in combat to monitor your allies, it's neutral (Bad Guys need meat sh-allies too, on occasion.)
If you use it in Combat to strike at severely weakened, helpless foes, then it's probably leaning towards evil.

Subjective problems are irritating.

 

[Kalem]

i'd suggest you just drop the evil descriptor, as stated above, it all depends on its use.
anywayz, thx for bringing this up, i'm going to mark the spell now as NOT evil in my campaign.
c ya

 

[Sigurd]

GOOD DEATH DOMAIN
Granted Power: Putting to Rest: 1/day you can call upon one of these effects: (1) gentle repose, (2) any dead creature that was slain by undead does not rise as undead.
1. Deathwatch (revised)
2. Consecrate
3. Speak with Dead
4. Death Ward
5. Raise Dead
6. Undeath to Death
7. Resurrection
8. Retribution of Life*
9. True Resurrection

I'm going to use this!

Did you ever put a class around this domain list or did you use it with the Cleric as written?


S

 

[ThoughtfulOwl]

To put it simply, it is evil because the designers chose to give it an evil flavor; the effect of a spell and the purpose it's used for aren't the only weights on its moral value, as they don't describe the inner workings.

From a mechanical standpoint, Glimpse of Truth isn't unlike other unaligned divination spells, but it contacts a malevolent entity and so it is evil; Darkbolt looks like the various Lesser Orb spells, yet it is charged with evil energy and so is evil. These are no less arbitrary than Deathwatch, which "uses the foul sight granted by the powers of unlife", but after all the same can be said for anything else: mechanics are always shallow and flavor is always arbitrary.

At the end of the day, somebody opted for an evil flavor for Deathwatch; if you don't like it change it, exactly as I can decide to make orcs often Lawful Good or decide that in my campaign resurrecting people is an evil unholy act. This doesn't make the standard flavor any less valid as a choice, though perhaps not the choice you like.

I would also point out that the role of unaligned spell to keep tabs of somebody's health is already filled much better by the spell Status; in fact, Deathwatch doesn't even distinguish between a 1st level commoner at full health and a 20th level fighter bleeding to death at -5 hp, or between a 1st level fighter with 12 hps and a 20th level one with the same amount out of 150. It's much more a "let's see who needs only a stab to die" than a "let's see who needs healing first".

 

[Swiftbrook]

Off Topic ---

Allow me to quote.

"Tapping into evil power is an evil act in and of itself, no matter what the effects or the reason for using the power might be. " -Monte Cook, Book Of Vile Darkness Chapter Six, page 77

Is the reverse true? Is tapping into a good power a good act in and of itself, no matter the effect or reason?

I'm thinking about (slowly opening a can of worms ) healing spells. Healing someone, no matter the reason, IMO is a good act -- you're helping them feel better. If healing spells are good by their vary nature, then evil clerics can't cast healing spells. Your thoughts?

This is probably my grand debut on EN World. Weird.

Welcome aboard matie

-Swiftbrook

 

[Sigurd]

I'm thinking about (slowly opening a can of worms ) healing spells. Healing someone, no matter the reason, IMO is a good act -- you're helping them feel better. If healing spells are good by their vary nature, then evil clerics can't cast healing spells. Your thoughts?

-Swiftbrook

I would follow that if you were certain that all healing power comes from the same place. I imagine it could be that the good are healed by energies from a good plane on the grounds that they will continue to do good while the evil are are healed by energy from evil planes or from somewhere else. If the energy granted is an investment in the alignment of the hurt creature it would be self serving.


I like the idea of a good character having moral problems and even nightmares as s\he realizes he was healed by an evil cleric. "what else did they do to me?"

One might also say that all healing is a compassionate act and therefore increases the power of good in a plane no matter how is was used.

Is all killing evil? Some would say so, but the game would come to a screeching halt if all the good characters refused to kill anyone. Niether, I think, is all healing good. Both exist in the chaos and free will of the game universe.


S

 

[ThoughtfulOwl]

Is the reverse true? Is tapping into a good power a good act in and of itself, no matter the effect or reason?

I'm thinking about (slowly opening a can of worms ) healing spells. Healing someone, no matter the reason, IMO is a good act -- you're helping them feel better. If healing spells are good by their vary nature, then evil clerics can't cast healing spells. Your thoughts?

I have issues with this line of reasoning; casting a good spell isn't a good act; it just carries an intrinsic good component. The overall value of the act must still take into account intent and result: the alignment descriptor is just one of the factors and the rules do not even define how much it weights.

An unaligned spell is just a spell devoid of intrinsic moral value, just like most tools, so it all boils down to intent and result; an aligned spell is inherently biased toward a given alignment, but it doesn't prevent intent and purpose to tip the balance in the other direction.