Defense vs. Time Stop

[Thanee]

He's already answered the first part of that - DM is ruling that the caster gets to control the orientation of the gate on both side (independently). So you go up into the gate, and down out of the gate.

Yeah, if you would go through the Gate... but I don't see why you would.

The second part - well, yes, but they're still Moving from the reverse gravity, even if not willingly.

If an object or creature reaches the top of the area without striking anything, it remains there, oscillating slightly, until the spell ends.

You do not go any further, you do not even enter the Gate, since the Gate sets the top of the area of the Reverse Gravity.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jack Simth]

Yeah, if you would go through the Gate... but I don't see why you would.





You do not go any further, you do not even enter the Gate, since the Gate sets the top of the area of the Reverse Gravity.

Bye
Thanee

You do run into something - the Gate itself. You hit a gate at X miles per hour due to falling under the force of magic gravity, on the other side of the gate for any portion of you that goes through suffers mundane gravity pulling you through. As far as the observer falling through the trap is concerned, there is no interruption of forces (provided, of course, that the gate goes to a plane with normal gravity).

I mean, you can mince words any way you like, but if you go too RAW, there's no penalty for having the dead condition, and a dead Wizard (not an Undead Wizard) can continue to act just fine after having been taken to -300 HP by a single blow.

Whether or not that is how the spells are supposed to work out is immaterial - it's how his DM has ruled they work, which is the final say in the matter. The original poster posing the problem to be solved is doing so because of a specific set of DM rulings - while not overly verbose, the original poster (although not entirely in the original post) has explained what's happening and the how of it happening.

As we can't argue with the DM directly (to my knowledge), the solution needs to happen within the context of the situation as presented - they do indeed fall through the Gate, even if they aren't technically supposed to.

 

[gnfnrf]

The solution is, as far as I can tell, very simple.

String ropes everywhere.

Or possibly adamantine chains.

That way, when under the effects of Reverse Gravity, you will get a Reflex save, since there will always be something to grab.

I suggest adamantine chains because the enemy wizard will likely try to destroy the ropes.

--
gnfnrf

 

[questbreaker]

get a wand of polymorph and a bag of tricks. throw the animals out of the bag of tricks (or alternatively just summon animals you can control) and polymorph them to look like your individual party members. while they get revere gravitied and gated, disintegrate for the win!

 

[Infiniti2000]

Yeah, if you would go through the Gate... but I don't see why you would.

I'm not understanding you. Are you saying that you can move through the area of the gate and not go through it, as in that you must be willing to use the planar travel mode of the gate?

You do not go any further, you do not even enter the Gate, since the Gate sets the top of the area of the Reverse Gravity.

Why does it sit at the top of the area? Cast reverse gravity, then gate. Does the gate end reverse gravity on the other side? Remember that the 'falling' creatures strike the gate in the same manner that they would in a downward fall. If you put the gate on the floor and jumped on it, would you go through it? You seem to be arguing that you wouldn't, which is totally illogical.

 

[Infiniti2000]

get a wand of polymorph and a bag of tricks. throw the animals out of the bag of tricks (or alternatively just summon animals you can control) and polymorph them to look like your individual party members. while they get revere gravitied and gated, disintegrate for the win!

The bag of tricks concept won't work because "only one may exist at a time." Summoning creatures will only last for a very short period of time.

 

[questbreaker]

The bag of tricks concept won't work because "only one may exist at a time." Summoning creatures will only last for a very short period of time.

then get multiple bags of tricks, or extend the summoning spell.

 

[Thanee]

I'm not understanding you. Are you saying that you can move through the area of the gate and not go through it, as in that you must be willing to use the planar travel mode of the gate?

Well, that's the second part I quoted... it strongly implies, that only willing creatures can actually be transported and only if the join hands with the caster.

My argument is independant of that part, though.

Why does it sit at the top of the area? Cast reverse gravity, then gate. Does the gate end reverse gravity on the other side?

Of course. You cannot affect another dimension with Reverse Gravity.

Remember that the 'falling' creatures strike the gate in the same manner that they would in a downward fall. If you put the gate on the floor and jumped on it, would you go through it?

Yes, in a normal situation... but this is not a normal situation. It involves gravity reversal and planar travel.

You seem to be arguing that you wouldn't, which is totally illogical.

No, I actually think it's wrong.

There is no continuous gravity here. There's a magical area of reversed gravity, which stops somewhere, because there is this Gate cutting it off. The gravity does not continue through the Gate-window, that's impossible. It's not continuous, there is a break where the window is (there is the requirement for planar travel between; maybe the Gate exit is also positioned in a way, that if you come out of it, you would fall, but you will never get there, since there is no force that moves you through the Gate, only up to it, then it stops) and that would simply make you stop falling and hover there, as if you hit the top of the effect (you do not fall further in that case either, your acceleration and speed do not matter here).

Bye
Thanee

 

[green slime]

There is no continuous gravity here. There's a magical area of reversed gravity, which stops somewhere, because there is this Gate cutting it off. The gravity does not continue through the Gate-window, that's impossible. It's not continuous, there is a break where the window is (there is the requirement for planar travel between; maybe the Gate exit is also positioned in a way, that if you come out of it, you would fall, but you will never get there, since there is no force that moves you through the Gate, only up to it, then it stops) and that would simply make you stop falling and hover there, as if you hit the top of the effect (you do not fall further in that case either, your acceleration and speed do not matter here).

I disagree. As long as you have a mass to pull upwards, the reversed gravity will keep pushing you up. As you rise from the floor, your head will touch the gate. But as the gate itself exerts no pressure upon you, it is merely a conduit to "otherwhere", therefore the rest of your mass continues to rise, forcing your head through the gate. The gate itself has no mass for you to rest upon. Now your head is elsewhere, and your body continues to rise up towards the gate. Your head can't possibly fall back through the gate, unless there is some far greater pressure at work.

As there is nothing to say regarding the orientation of the gate in the RAW, the decision of the DM to allow the caster to align it as he pleases cannot be questioned. Therefore, the wily caster will of course align the gate so the circumstances (gravity, suction, current of water) of "otherwhere" assists in dragging the victim through the gate.

 

[irdeggman]

The quickened spells don't help vs the gate though since we all fall into it before we even can roll for initiative - only an immediate action such as feather fall or other spell with immediate action casting time can work. Feather fall might slow us enough to have an action before hitting the gate, but alas we didn't have that prepared either (and you still fall 1 foot pretty quick when you're falling 60 feet/ round, so I can see the argument about not even getting to act before then. )

Can't use an immediate action when you are flat footed. If you haven't rolled initiative you are still flat footed.

We have discussed falling and immediate actions before. My opinion (and the one that helps to match how a character can use feather fall when falling into a pit trap) is that you don't resolve any type of movement (including falling) untill it is yuor turn in the initiative orcer.

The DM has also ruled that since the caster can control the orientation of the gate, we fall up into it, then down into the abyss out the other side. I'm not sure I agree with that ruling, but I do see it as a grey area which could be argued either way and therefore the DM's interpretation is just as valid as mine. On the other side of the gate we had fallen far enough that by the time we got flying magic going, we were too far from the gate to cross back before the caster dropped concentration and closed it.

I disagree with his call, but he is the DM and in the future your PCs can use this same tactic.

How could you have fallen longer than a partial round (until you got to turn in the initiative order)?

When time stop stops is when you are affected by the spells in place - not before.

As has been pointed out with the orientation of the gates the reverse gravity will get you to the gate (but not through) and then you will stop. "Anyone who chooses to step through the portal is transported." Since it crosses planes and most spell effects do not you must move through the gate under your own power.

The gate will not close until the caster's turn in the initiaitve order.

So back to my first statement - raise your spot checks and initiative modifiers.

Wards and symbols should still work too.